Called out on second day of carry!!

[ForbidInjustice]

Glad everything worked out alright.

Unless I'm wearing one of my hockey jerseys that is large and comes past my waist like a hockey sweater is designed to, I wear my belly band. It becomes uncomfortable and sweaty after a while. The gun makes the belly band sag a bit because of the weight, and instead of being wrapped around my chest, the gun ends up near my stomach, so I have to adjust it, sometimes while in public. I make sure no one is really watching when I do it. It would almost be a dead giveaway.

The only other people who realise I am carrying are the people that hug me. I make sure not to give close hugs to anyone who shouldn't know I'm carrying.

Being in the security field myself, I look for things like guns, so I would probably notice a bulge. However, I wouldn't call someone out unless it was obvious. Gotta look out for my fellow CHL carriers.

I definitely need a better carry method.

[LedJedi]

quick question about this topic. i asked in my CHL class and got sort of a squirrelly answer that I don't recall at the moment.

If i'm carrying and it is concealed but someone guesses or pretty much otherwise knows (because they know what to look for) i'm carrying but i'm still in full concealment am I out of compliance? (pretty sure the answer is no)... and if not, why to CHL folks get so freaked when someone "outs" them?

It's also my understanding that informing someone that you are carrying is not in any way illegal so long as it is not in a threatening manner (but is probably still best to try and keep the info on the DL).

What does the LAW say about printing? I hear people just crazy concerned about printing. My CHL instructor said that in Texas you could print all you want and it didn't matter. So long as folks couldn't physically see the gun you were in compliance.

assuming the above is true that also begs the question that if i have a holster that completely conceals my weapon am I in compliance even if i'm wearing the holster in open view? Common sense says no, and i wouldn't do such a thing because folks get freaked out about that, but i'm curious as to how the LAW states things.

For instance, I wear a shoulder rig. IF someone sees that I'm wearing a rig but they don't see my gun or even my holster am I still in compliance?

[seamusTX]

What does the LAW say about printing? I hear people just crazy concerned about printing.

For instance, I wear a shoulder rig. IF someone sees that I'm wearing a rig but they don't see my gun or even my holster am I still in compliance?

GC §411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:...
(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

People are concerned about this for at least two reasons:

• In some states, printing and brandishing are defined offenses. (Neither is in Texas.)
• On a few rare but notable occasions in Texas, CHL holders were "made" and taken down hard.

The answer to your second question is Yes, IHMO; but if someone notices and starts shrieking, it would be embarrassing.

- Jim

[LedJedi]

hmmm, if it's discernable... now see I would personally interpret that as obvious printing being illegal.

question #2 was if i was OUT of compliance if someone noticed... i think you meant to say "no". just wanted to clarify that though. assumptions on this subject are BAD.

makes more sense now that i know other states outright ban printing of any sort.

Hypothetically, if some nut went screaming that a CHLer had a gun but i was completely concealed and she just guessed it I might certainly be embarrassed, but will I be going to the pokey for failing to conceal because she guessed right or saw the strap on my rig?

[seamusTX]

question #2 was if i was OUT of compliance if someone noticed... i think you meant to say "no". just wanted to clarify that though. assumptions on this subject are BAD.

OK. Your question was cleverly ambiguous. Have you considered a career in law?

For instance, I wear a shoulder rig. IF someone sees that I'm wearing a rig but they don't see my gun or even my holster am I still in compliance?

What does "sees I'm wearing a rig" mean? If they can see a lump under your armpit, that could be a heart monitor, insulin pump, or something like that.

If they can clearly make out the butt, grip, or hammer of a handgun, I would say it is failure to conceal. But is it intentional?

Hypothetically, if some nut went screaming that a CHLer had a gun but i was completely concealed and she just guessed it I might certainly be embarrassed, but will I be going to the pokey for failing to conceal because she guessed right or saw the strap on my rig?

You could. Every situation is decided by the responding officer and possibly his superior, if it's complicated.

I have never been in that exact situation, but if someone starts making a fuss around me, and I can leave, I do. The easiest solution to staying out of trouble is to be somewhere else.

- Jim

[LedJedi]

OK. Your question was cleverly ambiguous. Have you considered a career in law?

HA, ya, i have actually, but I apologize. That wasn't my intent at all. I should have phrased that more clearly.

well... that clears up a few things and you make very good points.

Thank you VERY much for taking the time to hold one of us newbs by the hand.

[seamusTX]

Thank you VERY much for taking the time to hold one of us newbs by the hand.

You're welcome. I hope it helped.

The bottom line on this kind of thing is that if someone calls the cops on you for any reason, you're spinning the wheel of fortune from then on. It's best to be discreet and unnoticed.

Let's see what the real experts have to say.

- Jim

[LedJedi]

heh, I honestly would never let someone know I was carrying. I like to keep a low profile unless I dont have another choice.

However, that being said. I do like to know what will happen if xyz happens. It's all about the WHAT IF game man. :)

[NcongruNt]

hmmm, if it's discernable... now see I would personally interpret that as obvious printing being illegal.

It is only failure to conceal if you did it intentionally. Intent is what is specified in the law, which others have posted above.

[NcongruNt]

heh, I honestly would never let someone know I was carrying. I like to keep a low profile unless I dont have another choice.

However, that being said. I do like to know what will happen if xyz happens. It's all about the WHAT IF game man. :)

The overwhelming majority of people I interact with have no clue. However, taking a new shooter to the range is a little different. I only have 2 pistols, so my carry weapon is going to be among the guns that I have them shoot. Since I'm not going to disarm before we make the 45 minute drive out to the range, it's gotta be there at the range. I load back up with my defense magazines before we go. Since range rules are only loading and unloading on the firing line, that's where I do it.

So far, this affect has been positive. Usually, we've shot rifles before we ever get to my carry pistol leaving its holster. This has done most of the work in showing people how fun and positive an experience shooting can be. It has also broken down the "guns are scary and evil" walls that have been built up over the years of watching TV, movies, and Congressional hearings. By the time comes to shoot handguns, they're a little surprised but not freaked out when I go to the firing line, pull out my pistol, point it downrange and unload my carry ammo. This also fosters positive discussion about CHL and carrying.

This is a special situation, yes. If I'm out in public, no one knows or even knows to ask.

[jbenat]

Just tell anyone who asks that you are wearing a colostomy (Sp?) bag. That will end that conversation and completely elliminate any hugs.

[Hoppes]

Occasionlly I "make" people who are carrying. I never say aything unless they are exposed.

People who are used to looking a person over for weapons get pretty good at spottimg the bulge. People who are new to carrying also tend to exhibit "tells", like touching the weapon thru the clothes, adjusting the pants all of the time, etc.

I was wearing a shoulder holster about 2 years ago while working a PPO detail. (I was driving). Our event was at a large hotel for a benefit. An off duty Game Warden who was on the floor above me saw me over a railing, came down and asked me if I was police or private. Since I don't wear a shoulder holster often, I was "telling".

Today, I was driving home from San Antonio. A fellow on a sporty motorcycle drove by me and stopped at the red light in the left turn lane (I was turning right). When I looked over, the guy was "open carrying" in the small of his back. It was a black semi-automatic pistol.

I can't say he was carrying illegal or not. When the light turned green, I turned right and the fellow on the motorcycle turned left. I can't help but wonder whether he was the good guy or a bad guy. For all I know, he could have been a law enforcement officer, a CHL citizen, or a thug.

Some might think we should call the police when we witness such. I didn't because I had no information leading me to believe he was carrying illegally. What do you think and how would you react?

Hoppes

[Hoppes]

hmmm, if it's discernable... now see I would personally interpret that as obvious printing being illegal.

It is only failure to conceal if you did it intentionally. Intent is what is specified in the law, which others have posted above.

To your knowledge, is "Intentionally clearly defined in the statutes or laws?

Just a couple of days ago, I took my daughter to see the latest Die Hard
movie. A guy driving a beat up old station wagon got out of his car about the same time we did. He had to bring a back pack in for some reason and he happened to go to the same movie. I watched this guy like a hawk because he exhibited actions and characteristic movements that led me to believe he had something very valuable or secret in the bck pack.

I was suspicious of him. Although I did not see anything printed, I suppose I am the ordinary Joe and from my past experience, it was on my mind to anticipate that this guy could have had a C4 bomb or firearm in the bag. I was happy to get my daughter and me out of the theatre safely after the movie.

Am I being paranoid because the guy had a back pack? It just seemed strange that he would bring it in unless it was something valuable he didn't want possibly stolen while he was watching the movie or something worse. He was really clutching that pack nervously a few times.

[seamusTX]

To your knowledge, is "Intentionally clearly defined in the statutes or laws?

PC § 6.03. DEFINITIONS OF CULPABLE MENTAL STATES. (a) A person acts intentionally, or with intent, with respect to the nature of his conduct or to a result of his conduct when it is his conscious objective or desire to engage in the conduct or cause the result.

- Jim

[jbenat]

hmmm, if it's discernable... now see I would personally interpret that as obvious printing being illegal.

It is only failure to conceal if you did it intentionally. Intent is what is specified in the law, which others have posted above.

To your knowledge, is "Intentionally clearly defined in the statutes or laws?

Just a couple of days ago, I took my daughter to see the latest Die Hard
movie. A guy driving a beat up old station wagon got out of his car about the same time we did. He had to bring a back pack in for some reason and he happened to go to the same movie. I watched this guy like a hawk because he exhibited actions and characteristic movements that led me to believe he had something very valuable or secret in the bck pack.

I was suspicious of him. Although I did not see anything printed, I suppose I am the ordinary Joe and from my past experience, it was on my mind to anticipate that this guy could have had a C4 bomb or firearm in the bag. I was happy to get my daughter and me out of the theatre safely after the movie.

Am I being paranoid because the guy had a back pack? It just seemed strange that he would bring it in unless it was something valuable he didn't want possibly stolen while he was watching the movie or something worse. He was really clutching that pack nervously a few times.

Because you were worried about being paranoid you took a big gamble with your life, your daughter's life and the life of everyone it the theater. Before 9/11/01 I would have thought nothing of this but today I would be very suspicious. I think you should have notified theatre management and got out of the area until he was checked out. There is no reason a person going to a movie has to carry a back pack in. It could have been left at home or locked in the car if anything of value was in it that he was so conserned out. It is our duty to protect each other to be on the look out for this type of behaviour. Maybe he was just testing the system this time to see if he could get away with it and he did. Who knows but we should be alert at all times now days.
I don't see why movie management let in in the first place. I know they would at least be very interested to see if he were smuggling in any snacks like candy bars that he didn't pay $3.00 for at the concession stand.