.40 or 9mm?

[badkarma56]

Between 9mm and .40 S&W, I choose 9mm.

Why? Because: 1) I'm accustomed to shooting the 9mm, and have been for 15+ years, 2) there are many quality 9mm defense loads (*FWIW, I prefer Winchester Ranger-T followed by Federal Tactical HST rounds) that provide good penetration/stopping power without the extra recoil/noise of the .40 S&W, and 3) 9mm practice ammo is cheaper than .40 S&W, particularly with the imminent across-the-board price-hike that's coming from many U.S. ammo companies in September. By the way, in light of this coming price-hike, all you guys and gals should be stocking up on practice ammo right now for your guns, particularly the military calibers (9mm, 5.56mm, 7.62mm, etc.)!

I do happen to own a .45 caliber pistol though (H&K USP45), and I'd pick that pistol/caliber as my absolute favorite manstopper!

[Skiprr]

For those who may not have seen Mas Ayoob's "Cop Talk" article in the current issue of American Handgunner (p38), I thought I'd share an interesting picture comparing the Winchester Ranger-T expansion in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP:

[badkarma56]

For those who may not have seen Mas Ayoob's "Cop Talk" article in the current issue of American Handgunner (p38), I thought I'd share an interesting picture comparing the Winchester Ranger-T expansion in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP:

Those are some real nasty lookin' critters right there, particularly the .45! The new 124 gr. 9mm round expands very well for its relatively small size/weight, but Ayoob should have depicted a recovered 147-gr. 9mm Ranger-T round...the larger/heavier 147 gr. 9mm Ranger-T is more comparable to the .40 S&W Ranger-T.

[mcub]

I kind of feel out of place replying to this one, but here it goes.
I really only have the chl to cover me legally when I toss my gun in the camera bag, for snakes and other critters that might bug me. I rarely carry one in my car, unless I’m going to a range latter in the day and it’s just convenient to take it with me from the get go and not worry about traffic stops.

So I would like to offer a suggestion along a different observation.
Mechanically all the guns and calibers you mentioned are reliable.

Determine how much ammo you will use in practice/play with the gun.
Compare costs, and give extreme consideration to what you are comfortable with handling and funding. Don’t get bogged down trying to figure out the most lethal bullet weight, caliber and size.

[badkarma56]

I kind of feel out of place replying to this one, but here it goes.
I really only have the chl to cover me legally when I toss my gun in the camera bag, for snakes and other critters that might bug me. I rarely carry one in my car, unless I’m going to a range latter in the day and it’s just convenient to take it with me from the get go and not worry about traffic stops.

So I would like to offer a suggestion along a different observation.
Mechanically all the guns and calibers you mentioned are reliable.

Determine how much ammo you will use in practice/play with the gun.
Compare costs, and give extreme consideration to what you are comfortable with handling and funding. Don’t get bogged down trying to figure out the most lethal bullet weight, caliber and size.

I basically concur with your point here. Moreover, this is essentially why I default to the 9mm as my preferred all-around pistol caliber. I have a .45, simply because it's fun to shoot and I like having one big-bore pistol , but the ammo costs alone make it impractical for me to shoot the pistol frequently.

Some consideration of the effectiveness of various defensive rounds (i.e., jacketed hollow point ammo) is appropriate, but I agree that most folks don't need to fixate on this issue. Simply speaking, I just asked my LEO friends what duty ammo they prefer, and I got a few rounds to practice with. Once I was certain that my weapons would reliably feed Ranger-T/Federal HST ammo, I adopted these rounds for my personal defense needs. I figure that if these rounds work for cops, why not me?

This is analagous to a hunter who decides undertake some research on the best hunting round (e.g., ballistic tip, hollow point, soft pointed, etc.) for his intended purposes. Depending on the animal, a different round/bullet style could/will be required. Obviously, we aren't "hunting" any humans here, but I kind of like knowing which rounds are most effective on would-be assailants.

[elwood blooz]

My XD.45 is my daily. I carry at work but for different reasons than most.
I manage 725 acre mine, all but 100 acres hasn't been timbered sine the late 70's. Two incidents made me carry. Three guys looking for their cattle came right up on me on horseback, no noise at all. If I wasn't carrying the scenario maybe different right now. The second is when you walk up on a 300+ lb boar nesting, I don't think thte 9mm is going to stop him fast enough!

[badkarma56]

My XD.45 is my daily. I carry at work but for different reasons than most.
I manage 725 acre mine, all but 100 acres hasn't been timbered sine the late 70's. Two incidents made me carry. Three guys looking for their cattle came right up on me on horseback, no noise at all. If I wasn't carrying the scenario maybe different right now. The second is when you walk up on a 300+ lb boar nesting, I don't think thte 9mm is going to stop him fast enough!

LOL, I'd have to agree with you there, Dude! I'd probably choose to carry my USP45 in your circumstances.

[Skiprr]

...When you walk up on a 300+ lb boar nesting, I don't think the 9mm is going to stop him fast enough!

There ya go. The 300-pound wild boar test.

If you're confident your handgun can put down a 300-pound wild boar, you're good to go on the mean streets of the city.

If you aren't confident your handgun can stop a 300-pound wild boar, you shouldn't believe it will stop a 300-pound, 6'2", meth-enraged human version.

Thanks for the words of wisdom, Elwood.

[Tajovo]

http://www.greent.com/40Page/general/defammo.htm

Good article to read, favors the shot placement argument over size of caliber.

I voted 9mm, as I will be carrying it as soon as my plastic arrives.

[BrassMonkey]

You stick a little .22 in someones eye socket and squeeze one off, he's not getting up my friends.... It is always about shot placements.

The stories you hear about cops shooting people 4/5 times before they go down is generally, and I said "generally" not placing their shots in the appropriate place. You get someone in the shoulder, they are gonna keep coming, knee, they keep coming on one leg. hand, nope, still coming. Both feet? Now he is crawling at you.

1. Head = Drop
2. Carotid/Femora/(Brachial Maybe) Artery drop real quick!!!
3. 1 Lung = Drop pretty quick
4. 2 Lungs = Drop even quicker
5. Heart = Drop within seconds
6. Direct to the Spine - Drop

Dibilitation shout placement has it's place, but not for us.

Non immediately lethal shhot placement brings down the normal BG based on his lack of will to fight. They would rather give up or run, Fight or Flight in a way. They lose this will due to physical pain. It isn;t that they can't move their arm sometimes, it is that it hurts to much to do so.

A Doper BG on the other hand, feels little pain, in fact, those receptors get reversed polarity in a way and pain to them fees liks something else, not pleasure, but somewhere near there. We have not figured that must out yet scientifically. But we do know that Endorphines, epiniphrine and adreaneline as well as other chemicals influence hot much "damagae" they can take without perceiving what it really happening.

http://www.greent.com/40Page/general/defammo.htm

Good article to read, favors the shot placement argument over size of caliber.

I voted 9mm, as I will be carrying it as soon as my plastic arrives.

[fm2]

Hey elwood,

See this?

http://www.gunblast.com/ExtremeShock.htm

[elwood blooz]

Hey elwood,

See this?

http://www.gunblast.com/ExtremeShock.htm

That ammo did the trick!