TexasCHLforum.com

Howdy. I'll be moving from Georgia soon, where I have a carry permit (in addition to a Utah non resident permit.)

Has there been any effort within the Texas CHL community to either resist or dispute the requirement that an SSN be used in the application process? It's a little embarrassing that the land of milk and honey requires an SSN here, when even Georgia can figure out how to do it. Granted, GeorgiaCarry.org did have to take the state, and most of the county probate judges to court, but it wasn't as painful as you'd think.

...the Department of Public Safety will not promulgate any forms to be used as a part of the firearms license application process that requests' SSN or employment information

(Link to the state summary judgement, PDF WARNING) http://www.georgiacarry.com/camp/Camp%2 ... eement.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is there actually a legislatively passed statutory requirement that DPS is required to ask this, or is it just part of the accepted process, like how most people fill out 4473 and pray not to tick off any of the all powerful bureaucracy enough to get their applications pigeonholed? If statutory, can someone post the particular chunk of code that dictates it? I would think we're all aware that both NICS, state (at least in GA and UT) Bureau, and FBI background checks can be executed quite successfully without a social security number, especially if you have a funny name or two.

I'm sure glad to be getting to Texas, your off-limits locations are far easier to figure out that Georgia's!

Just to clarify, because in http://law.onecle.com/texas/government/411.174.00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(b) An applicant must provide on the application a statement
of the applicant's:
(1) full name and place and date of birth;
(2) race and sex;
(3) residence and business addresses for the preceding
five years;
(4) hair and eye color;
(5) height and weight;
(6) driver's license number or identification
certificate number issued by the department;
(7) criminal history record information of the type
maintained by the department under this chapter, including a list
of offenses for which the applicant was arrested, charged, or under
an information or indictment and the disposition of the offenses;
and
(8) history during the preceding five years, if any,
of treatment received by, commitment to, or residence in:

I'm not seeing where they have the authority to ask.

In my latest CHL Instructor class, we were told the SS number wasn't required, but it is recommended to help prevent identification issues. It probably helps John Smith a lot more than Eduard Schevardnaze.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:In my latest CHL Instructor class, we were told the SS number wasn't required, but it is recommended to help prevent identification issues. It probably helps John Smith a lot more than Eduard Schevardnaze.

Chas.

Would that be Eduard P. Schevardnaze or Eduard T. Schevardnaze? I get those mixed up ALL the time?.....

So, no online applications then, since SSN is marked as a required field:

*An applicant must provide the applicant's Social Security number. This information is required to assist in the administration of laws relating to child support enforcement, as required and authorized by Family Code, §231.302.

Has anyone else tried a paper application with no SSN, before I go and make myself the test case? Edit: With further reading, I think I'm out of luck, since that section of the family code is phrased nearly exactly like the REAL ID justification used by the state to collect SSNs for driver's licenses (which begs the question, if they've already got it...)

If you already have a Georgia and Utah license, you don't even need to apply for a Texas CHL as the state will honor those licenses.

DPS told me precisely that late last week. Trust me, this is a total oddity coming from Georgia: Law Enforcement giving me a straight, unambiguous answer that "errs" on the side of keeping its citizens armed.

Thankfully, that gives me a few years to work on this SSN requirement in Texas so I don't have to turn it over (again) to the state. Is anyone else remotely concerned about having to turn over your SSN for any sort of license in the state? Aren't child support rulings going to be attached to your DL #, and every other facet of your existence, so that the SSN is just gravy?

LSU_nonleg wrote:Aren't child support rulings going to be attached to your DL #, and every other facet of your existence, so that the SSN is just gravy?

Don't put yourself in the position of having the state garnish your wages for child support, then it's not a problem.

Well, actually it is. Collection and use of a social security number is carefully controlled. Remember why they took the SSN off the front of the driver's licenses to begin with? And how most state DMVs started forcing you to give it them (REAL ID compliance)?

Despite a rash of high-profile identity thefts in recent years, both the government and the private sector's practices for storing Social Security numbers leave the personally identifiable data vulnerable, according to the GAO. Even Social Security numbers that are truncated can be used by identity thieves because there is no standard method for truncation. Some agencies show only the last four digits, and some show the first five digits, leaving the full number available in public sources to be cobbled together.

From the SSA itself:

You should treat your Social Security number as confidential information and avoid giving it out unnecessarily

Part of a Congressional finding in 1977 after the Privacy act of 74:

In a larger context, Americans must also be concerned about the long-term effect record-keeping practices can have not only on relationships between individuals and organizations, but also on the balance of power between government and the rest of society. Accumulations of information about individuals tend to enhance authority by making it easier for authority to reach individuals directly. Thus, growth in society's record-keeping capability poses the risk that existing power balances will be upset.

I realize you view spamming your SSN wherever the state asks for it in the context of, "If you didn't do anything wrong, don't worry about it."

However, nobody has addressed the causative issue of requiring the SSN for child support monitoring to begin with.
If the state requires your SSN for the issuance of a drivers license or identification card (one of which is required for the CHL) then why do they need to request the SSN again, when they're essentially looking up a record that contains it? Since non payment of child support is a federal crime, and the IRS knows where *everybody* is, why is the state (Texas, and I'm assuming other no-income tax states) even bothering besides to serve warrants pushed down from the Federal level?

We don't seem to have any real information on what happens to your SSN after you give it to them again. Is it an insta-check system to look up point in time non-compliance? Is it stored and continually polled in YADB (yet another database) for as long as you hold the license? Is anyone worried? I bitched up a storm having to give my SSN to the DMV for the first time ever three years ago.

If you pay attention to data breach notifications, you'll see a few trends:
1) Insider jobs or losses through negligence by internal employees far, far, outweigh any other cause of the loss of control of sensitive data in a given year
2) State employees tend not to be well compensated, increasing the ease of paying them off to steal
3)Government agencies in particular (including public colleges, federal, state, and local agencies) essentially have no negative consequence in the marketplace for being careless with your data, even to the point of criminal negligence.

LSU_nonleg wrote:DPS told me precisely that late last week. Trust me, this is a total oddity coming from Georgia: Law Enforcement giving me a straight, unambiguous answer that "errs" on the side of keeping its citizens armed.

Thankfully, that gives me a few years to work on this SSN requirement in Texas so I don't have to turn it over (again) to the state. Is anyone else remotely concerned about having to turn over your SSN for any sort of license in the state? Aren't child support rulings going to be attached to your DL #, and every other facet of your existence, so that the SSN is just gravy?

They do require it for a DL and for a hunting license and other things. That's what happens when socialists and fascists get political power.