Whataburger's Gun Policy (Ugh)..........

[EEllis]

They can show me an employee. They can show me a policy. They can show me a sign.

Until they show me an employee who either is the owner or speaks with the APPARENT authority of the owner who verbally notifies me to leave, or shows me a written document with the identical 30.07 language written on it, or displays a properly posted compliant 30.07 sign I will have until then not been lawfully notified. And neither will anyone else.

First the posted policy says they will not serve a person open carrying not that they will ask anyone to leave. Second your statement has zero basis in law. Anyone in a company uniform has apparent authority and you can be arrested and will be convicted. But lets ignore that and create such a disturbance that they do post the store and no one would be able to carry. Make sure you bring your kids, the younger the better, to scream and cry and video you being dragged out by the cops. That will win all kinds of props from CJ and Korey.

First...posted policy is not notification, by law. That is a written document that, I presume, has a policy written on it rather than the prescribed language.

Second...I did not say who has apparent authority, only that it must be someone with apparent authority. That person, by statute, must have APPARENT authority. I make no pronouncements as to who that is. And yes, if someone who meets that qualification asks me to leave then I will be properly notified and I will leave. Your statement which assumes that, by my statement, I would be willing to create a disturbance to make a point is unfounded. I suggest nothing of the sort and, in fact, expect nothing but kind, appropriate adult compliance TO THE PROPER NOTIFICATION.

I'll state it again even though I know folks know the law. Whataburger is well and indeed entitled to their right to ask anyone carrying a gun, concealed or not, to leave. I invite them to please do so. I am happy to comply and love their hamburgers so much that I will even continue to purchase them. I also expect no reasonable adult to make a scene just to make a point, even though he might be tempted to do so if there were improper notification. If I have a beef with the company I will take it to the leaders not to a young kid at the counter trying to pay for his next date!

There's really only two scenarios I can think of that might occur. 1) I go in with a gun (no signage anywhere) and someone asks me to leave which I immediately do. No issue here. or 2) I go in with the improper signage, no one says anything, but someone decides to call the police. When they arrive I will be surprised. When they ask if anyone asked me to leave I will truthfully say no. When they ask if I saw the sign I will say, "you mean that non-compliant thing over there?" Yes sir I did. Then I will ask them if they are familiar with 30.07. The resulting legal inconvenience, if any, will be easily remedied. The alternative is that 30.06 or 30.07 mean nothing as far as our rights to carry a gun.

I expect, as representatives of the CHL and LTC community, and as Christians or kind persons we all should handle these situations with kindness and appropriate decorum.

That does not change the requirements of the statute, our responsibility to comply with the law, or their responsibility to comply with the law.

tex

Totally missed my point about the policy. My point was that they never said they would post or ask anyone to leave thus rendering you "can't keep me out" thing rather pointless.

By your attitude and your comments that just any employee wouldn't be enough, only someone with APPARENT authority could ask you to leave, makes me think you want some big drama. There is no one who works for whataburger who would ask you to leave who doesn't have APPARENT authority to ask you to leave so why keep bringing it up like it means something? It makes me, and I would bet others, believe you had this idea that you were thinking you could play lawyer to cause a scene in some misguided attempt to make a point. Now after several people have made comments you seem to have backed off that position or maybe just clarified your points so as to give a different impression of your thought process. Great. I do believe that if everything stays the same as they have currently stated and Whataburger implements their policy consistently, openly carrying a firearm into Whataburger just to make them have to verbally tell you that they will not serve you is behavior I personally wouldn't support. Not a legal issue but, if one is informed and know that is a consistently enforced policy, it's just not good manners.

[thetexan]

I can see how that might be taken as being too particular as to who informs me. That is not my intention. I was responding to what seemed to be a willingness to just roll over and play dead to any less than proper notification. My point is that, being a good, try to get along, citizen is an important thing. We are not being too snotty, though, to expect that a business follow the same law as they expect us to follow and exercise their right to keep us off their premises by properly complying with 30.06 and .07.

This board is filled with examples of businesses with improper signage and folks discussing how to deal with them. I don't see many examples of folks being timid about their 2A rights here.

There have been some folks who appear to have a hard time understanding the difference between protecting their right to OC and respecting the rights of a business not to allow said OC. That may be the cause of the...reactions to your post. If that was not your intent, then I apologise.

And I apologize to you and EEllis if I have offended. That certainly is not my intent. As stated earlier here and many times in other threads, I believe in using adult judgement with all of this and an non-confrontational attitude. We all know what the law says. We know about oral, written and signage notifications prescribed in 30.06. The word apparent is used by the state legislature for a reason. Clearly there is a distinction between those with apparent authority and others who do not have apparent authority. I take them at their word. There ARE, according to the legislature, two types of persons who might tell you to get out, persons with apparent authority and those without.

That's my only point.

To restate my position, a company simply having a policy and hanging that policy on the wall is not, as we all know, one of the ways to lawfully notify a gun carrier to not carry a gun inside. The only other way is by one with apparent authority to ask you to leave. Is that person the manager, assistant manager, janitor, kid filling salt shakers, plain clothes owner who is in the store but doesn't identify himself as such? What is the definition of someone who has apparent authority? That's a real good question. The state seems to think that adjective was necessary. Each person has to decide how he will apply that law in his situation. And, for the record, if one doesn't know I recommend one be very cautious in their ignoring a request to leave.

That's my only point.

Again, I apologize to both of you for my poor phrasing.

tex

[EEllis]

I can see how that might be taken as being too particular as to who informs me. That is not my intention. I was responding to what seemed to be a willingness to just roll over and play dead to any less than proper notification. My point is that, being a good, try to get along, citizen is an important thing. We are not being too snotty, though, to expect that a business follow the same law as they expect us to follow and exercise their right to keep us off their premises by properly complying with 30.06 and .07.

This board is filled with examples of businesses with improper signage and folks discussing how to deal with them. I don't see many examples of folks being timid about their 2A rights here.

There have been some folks who appear to have a hard time understanding the difference between protecting their right to OC and respecting the rights of a business not to allow said OC. That may be the cause of the...reactions to your post. If that was not your intent, then I apologise.

And I apologize to you and EEllis if I have offended. That certainly is not my intent. As stated earlier here and many times in other threads, I believe in using adult judgement with all of this and an non-confrontational attitude. We all know what the law says. We know about oral, written and signage notifications prescribed in 30.06. The word apparent is used by the state legislature for a reason. Clearly there is a distinction between those with apparent authority and others who do not have apparent authority. I take them at their word. There ARE, according to the legislature, two types of persons who might tell you to get out, ones with apparent authority and those without.

That's my only point.

To restate my position, a company simply having a policy and hanging that policy on the wall is not, as we all know, one of the ways to lawfully notify a gun carrier to not carry a gun inside. The only other way is by one with apparent authority to ask you to leave. Is that the manager, assistant manager, janitor, kid filling salt shakers, plain clothes owner who is in the store but doesn't identify himself? What is the definition of someone who has apparent authority? That's a real good question. The state seems to think that adjective was necessary. Each person has to decide how that law is applied. And, for the record, if one doesn't know I recommend one be very cautious in their ignoring a request to leave.

That's my only point.

Again, I apologize to both of you for my poor phrasing.

tex

We're cool as far as I'm concerned. Like I said obviously your current intent is different that I initially believed. As to the whole Apparent thing. I believe that is meant to give people an out when it's questionable who does work at a business. Uniformed employee is obvious but someone who it wearing a t-shirt and flip flops has no apparent authority even if he does work there. I wouldn't try and work it to0 much unless you are willing to hire one of Mr. Cotten's colleges to keep you out of jail. If a person looks like they work somewhere then they can tell you to get out.

[thetexan]

I don't disagree and I'll be more thoughtful in the future.

Enough said

[Dad24GreatKids]

Tucker is a veteran and an incredibly fine leather maker. Yeah, I know, technically the cows make the leather. Not everyone will agree but basically there's Tucker and there's anyone else. He does the Texas concho among other things. I'm sure some people wouldn't have a clue but I think someone wearing a fine custom leather rig would be considered off duty, plain clothes or something else as often as not by the majority of the clueless.

I ordered a Tucker rig once OC passed and was signed by the governor. I am patiently waiting on delivery.

[Oldgringo]

Good Grief!

Is this Whataburger brouhaha/debate still going on after a month and a half and 29 pages? Let's everyone cool our jets and do what we want to do vis-a-vis OC on the weekend of 1 January 2016. When everyone goes back to work and the courts reopen for business on the following Monday, many questions will be answered shortly thereafter.

ITMT, let's smell the roses, eh?

[mojo84]

Good Grief!

Is this Whataburger brouhaha/debate still going on after a month and a half and 29 pages? Let's everyone cool our jets and do what we want to do vis-a-vis OC on the weekend of 1 January 2016. When everyone goes back to work and the courts reopen for business on the following Monday, many questions will be answered shortly thereafter.

ITMT, let's smell the roses, eh?

Feel better now?

[Oldgringo]

Good Grief!

Is this Whataburger brouhaha/debate still going on after a month and a half and 29 pages? Let's everyone cool our jets and do what we want to do vis-a-vis OC on the weekend of 1 January 2016. When everyone goes back to work and the courts reopen for business on the following Monday, many questions will be answered shortly thereafter.

ITMT, let's smell the roses, eh?

Feel better now?

Fine, thanks. How 'bout you?

[ScottDLS]

Can we make it to 30 pages?

[John Galt]

Can we make it to 30 pages?

[Taypo]

30 pages bump!

[Javier730]

Tucker is a veteran and an incredibly fine leather maker. Yeah, I know, technically the cows make the leather. Not everyone will agree but basically there's Tucker and there's anyone else. He does the Texas concho among other things. I'm sure some people wouldn't have a clue but I think someone wearing a fine custom leather rig would be considered off duty, plain clothes or something else as often as not by the majority of the clueless.

I ordered a Tucker rig once OC passed and was signed by the governor. I am patiently waiting on delivery.

Good, now all you need to do is get a camera and go and order yourself an A1 Thick and Hearty and see if you can get one without being asked to leave. They don't have 30.07 signs and maybe no one well notice.

Only joking. Trying to see if we can make it to 30 pages. Maybe I should of not said I was kidding.

[oljames3]

The Whataburger manager I talked to in Arizona did not know anything about a no open carry policy.

[cyphertext]

The Whataburger manager I talked to in Arizona did not know anything about a no open carry policy.

Did you point it out to him on the Whataburger web page?

[Dad24GreatKids]

Tucker is a veteran and an incredibly fine leather maker. Yeah, I know, technically the cows make the leather. Not everyone will agree but basically there's Tucker and there's anyone else. He does the Texas concho among other things. I'm sure some people wouldn't have a clue but I think someone wearing a fine custom leather rig would be considered off duty, plain clothes or something else as often as not by the majority of the clueless.

I ordered a Tucker rig once OC passed and was signed by the governor. I am patiently waiting on delivery.

Good, now all you need to do is get a camera and go and order yourself an A1 Thick and Hearty and see if you can get one without being asked to leave. They don't have 30.07 signs and maybe no one well notice.

Only joking. Trying to see if we can make it to 30 pages. Maybe I should of not said I was kidding.

No plans to open carry at Whataburger. I'm just excited about the Tucker rig. And I'd rather have a double meat with cheese, mustard and no salad. Oh, and sweet tea. :)

This one might get us to 30... (Edit to add: I guess it didn't get us to 30...)