First encounter. I hope there aren't more.

[Embalmo]

Tvguy, it's my understanding verbal notice is valid until otherwise notified.

So many customers and employees come an go in these chain stores that it would be next to impossible to prove that some employee gave notice. Especially when the notice was given vaguely in the course of a conversation.

This.

This is proof of the companies lack of knowledge of both alcohol and gun laws; and the invalidity of the clerks statement. No one is ever going to likely notice a concealed carry unless it's drawn. At that point, verbal notification is the least of my worries.

What concerns me most is the ignorance of the laws from shopkeepers, LE, and the public at large that can erode our rights.

Can you cite the law of which you are insinuating we are ignorant?

Before jumping to insinuating we are ignorant, you may want to double check your position with someone that is more knowledgableb such as Charles, Keith, Carlson, Steve Rothstein or others.

Mojo, I don't think he's talking about us.

Even an HEB corporate customer rep was quoted in another thread as telling the OP that they did not not allow firearms because of their blue TABC sign. That kind of ignorance frightens me. All it takes is a shopkeeper that thinks I'm commiting a felony by walking past a blue sign, and an ignorant LEO (A 20 plus year veteran trooper had to find out from me recently that church carry was legal) to drive me away.

[mojo84]

All the more reason I recommend you get a second opinion from one of the experts I mentioned previously. The law is not what we think it is or want it to be. It will only cost you if you are wrong.


Just because the HEB employee have an I correct reason for them putting up the signs it does not invalidate their signs. Just like the clerk in your situation didn't invalidate her notice to you.

[spx74]

I think it best to always stay off the radar And Happy New Year to a great bunch of people on this forum

[Embalmo]

All the more reason I recommend you get a second opinion from one of the experts I mentioned previously. The law is not what we think it is or want it to be. It will only cost you if you are wrong.

I'm very confident about my knowledge of blue versus red TABC signs. And I'm very confident of this forum's members' knowledge of blue versus red TABC signs. I'm growing less and less confident of the community's knowledge of blue versus red TABC signage.

[Excaliber]

You said she said " no guns allowed here". That's all she needs to say to give you notice.

The rest of the conversation is irrelevant. IMO, you have received verbal notice.

If you're ever caught carrying there and for whatever reason the cops are called, and it goes to court, that woman gets on the stand and says "I told him we don't allow guns here." The other clerk is a witness to that and agrees. You're toast.

That sure sounds like clear verbal notice to me.

Unfortunately, it appears that the OP has put himself in the position of being the only LTC holder who is now specifically and individually prohibited from carrying in that store.

[mojo84]

All the more reason I recommend you get a second opinion from one of the experts I mentioned previously. The law is not what we think it is or want it to be. It will only cost you if you are wrong.

I'm very confident about my knowledge of blue versus red TABC signs. And I'm very confident of this forum's members' knowledge of blue versus red TABC signs. I'm growing less and less confident of the community's knowledge of blue versus red TABC signage.

The issue is not the difference between the blue and red TABC signs.

[mojo84]

You said she said " no guns allowed here". That's all she needs to say to give you notice.

The rest of the conversation is irrelevant. IMO, you have received verbal notice.

If you're ever caught carrying there and for whatever reason the cops are called, and it goes to court, that woman gets on the stand and says "I told him we don't allow guns here." The other clerk is a witness to that and agrees. You're toast.

That sure sounds like clear verbal notice to me.

Unfortunately, it appears that the OP has put himself in the position of being the only LTC holder who is now specifically and individually prohibited from carrying in that store.

And he refuses to accept that he has.

I'm done here.

[Oldgringo]

Snickers must be in short supply around Pflugerville?

[Jim Beaux]

Truth is simple. There are only 2 possible answers here: 1. The store allows guns, or 2. the store does not allow guns.

During the interaction the OP was never advised in any form or by inference that guns were allowed. Regardless if one of the reasons for this decision are invalid, it still doesnt convey permission. The "no guns" was clearly communicated.

[The Annoyed Man]

You said she said " no guns allowed here". That's all she needs to say to give you notice.

The rest of the conversation is irrelevant. IMO, you have received verbal notice.

If you're ever caught carrying there and for whatever reason the cops are called, and it goes to court, that woman gets on the stand and says "I told him we don't allow guns here." The other clerk is a witness to that and agrees. You're toast.

That sure sounds like clear verbal notice to me.

Unfortunately, it appears that the OP has put himself in the position of being the only LTC holder who is now specifically and individually prohibited from carrying in that store.

And this is what comes of surrendering to the irresistible urge to give someone the opportunity to tell you you're not welcome. Silence, on the other hand, is golden - particularly when it comes to quizzing shopkeepers about a controversial topic.

And even although I favor the OC law, only a fool would deny that it is controversial. The fact that a significant percentage of the population is wrong on the issue doesn't mean that they are not agitated and not talking about it. And where factually challenged people are agitated and talking about something, controversy DOES exist.....whether or not it is necessary and whether or not their opinions are bolstered by logic and facts.

[Smokey]

Exact reason why I avoid this topic with the in laws.

[C-dub]

Truth is simple. There are only 2 possible answers here: 1. The store allows guns, or 2. the store does not allow guns.

During the interaction the OP was never advised in any form or by inference that guns were allowed. Regardless if one of the reasons for this decision are invalid, it still doesnt convey permission. The "no guns" was clearly communicated.

No #3? The store would allow them or not have a policy prohibiting them, but the mean ole blue TABC sign says you can't?

[Oldgringo]

I OC'd my old S&W Model 64 to our lunch host's house today for giggles. Tom is a retired THP trooper among being a CHL instructor emeritus and other things. After he gave me a history lesson on the old S&W Model 10, I put the revolver in the truck before eating and watching the VOLS win.

The point of this monologue, and as TAM suggests above, is that Tom, owner of about a thousand guns, is not a proponent of civilian OC.

[dave_in_austin]

I just asked a convenience store clerk while checking out with a Snickers Bar on my lunch break if she'd seen any open carryers yet. I'm at work and concealing. Anyway, a burly woman came out of the back telling us that no guns were allowed here and there was a big sign outside. I insisted she show me the sign and she proudly pointed my nose and o their blue TABC sign.

Embalmo

Perhaps an appropriate reply to this statement would have something like: "Oh, I see. I guess that only police, constables, and other people that that exclusion does not apply to can carry here. Is that correct?" If you then get an agreement that people to whom the restriction does not apply are allowed to have guns in the store, then you have effectively been given permission to carry there. Of course you do not need to point out that LTC holders are not subject to the restriction. It is up to the clerk to know that on her own.

[howdy]

So it is the contention of some here that if I OC in a Wal Mart for X number of days and one day a unknown store employee says "guns are not allowed here", that I have received notice and forever banned from carrying there? What if I later see multiple people OCing there without being hassled? Am I still banned for life? Oh, as far as the term "expert", I doubt anyone on this forum would call themselves an expert in CHL law. We are all experts in our own opinion, but there is very little case law to back up those opinions.