Dispelling a myth about "no guns allowed" signs

[azwe]

I see this repeated by friends and people on this forum and it needs to be corrected. The myth: No guns allowed signs are not enforceable, only the 30.06 and 30.07 sign. Wrong wrong WRONG. No guns allowed has force of law by the business owner or an agent authorized to act on their behalf. Open carrying into a business that lacks a 30.07 sign does not mean you cannot be asked to leave. If a business owner asks you to leave, you leave. Otherwise you'll be arrested for trespassing.

This blatant ignoring of "No Guns Allowed" signs is absurd. The only difference between NGA and 30.07 is the latter informs you that you're trespassing as soon as you enter. This doesn't make us immune from being asked to leave.

[Keith B]

I think you are misinterpreting what most members on the forum believe and state. The 'no guns' sign is not legal notification, period. If you open or concealed carry past that sign you have broken no law. If asked to leave, because you are carrying, sign or no sign, then you now have been given notice. I believe 99.9% of our members know this.

[mojo84]

Your comment makes it appear you believe a no guns allowed sign and verbal notice are one and the same. That's not correct. There is no sign needed to give verbal notice. A noncompliant no guns sign does not provide effective notice to someone with a LTC.

You have not busted a myth.

[azwe]

I most definitely have busted a myth. People on this forum think "a no guns allowed sign with no 30.06 or 30.07 sign means I'm safe to carry here" which isn't the case. The business owner clearly doesn't want your business. Every business I've been to with a "no guns allowed" sign has been very unfriendly and people on this forum think they're immune from trespassing. These are the same people who walk into businesses with improper 30.06 signs thinking they can walk right in with no problem. This is completely wrong.

[Papa_Tiger]

I see this repeated by friends and people on this forum and it needs to be corrected. The myth: No guns allowed signs are not enforceable, only the 30.06 and 30.07 sign. Wrong wrong WRONG. No guns allowed has force of law by the business owner or an agent authorized to act on their behalf. Open carrying into a business that lacks a 30.07 sign does not mean you cannot be asked to leave. If a business owner asks you to leave, you leave. Otherwise you'll be arrested for trespassing.

This blatant ignoring of "No Guns Allowed" signs is absurd. The only difference between NGA and 30.07 is the latter informs you that you're trespassing as soon as you enter. This doesn't make us immune from being asked to leave.

I don't think anyone would disagree with what you have written that I highlighted in red.

Yes, you can still be asked to leave, but until you are asked, a generic "no guns", gun buster, or any other sign lacking the statutory language and size does not meet the requirement of the law and is not legally enforceable and thus no crime has been committed.

If an owner or someone with apparent authority for the owner asks you to leave, you leave otherwise you are guilty of criminal trespass.

[Jago668]

I see no myth busted here.

[mojo84]

Think what you want but you are wrong in your presumptions about people on this forum and business owners that don't post compliant signs.

[ScottDLS]

I most definitely have busted a myth. People on this forum think "a no guns allowed sign with no 30.06 or 30.07 sign means I'm safe to carry here" which isn't the case. The business owner clearly doesn't want your business. Every business I've been to with a "no guns allowed" sign has been very unfriendly and people on this forum think they're immune from trespassing. These are the same people who walk into businesses with improper 30.06 signs thinking they can walk right in with no problem. This is completely wrong.

What problem are you going to have if you are concealing? YOU'RE NOT BREAKING THE LAW by passing a non-compliant 30.06 sign...I guess you could hurt their feelings if they found out or read about it on the Forum...

[Archery1]

There is proper written notice and proper verbal notice. Neither have anything to do with the other. Verbal is spoken, and written is, well, written. Improper written does not substitute as something spoken. That's the diference.

[Keith B]

I most definitely have busted a myth. People on this forum think "a no guns allowed sign with no 30.06 or 30.07 sign means I'm safe to carry here" which isn't the case. The business owner clearly doesn't want your business. Every business I've been to with a "no guns allowed" sign has been very unfriendly and people on this forum think they're immune from trespassing. These are the same people who walk into businesses with improper 30.06 signs thinking they can walk right in with no problem. This is completely wrong.

Trespassing (30.05) does not apply to a licensed concealed or open carrier. We have an exemption. So, we ARE immune from trespassing under 30.05 if the only reason they are asking you to leave is because you have a handgun. You can see it here in section 30.05(f)(2) http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.30.htm

30.06 and 30.07 apply to LTC, and there are specific requirements for notification. Unless the sign meets that specification, then it falls back to verbal or written notice in the form of 30.06 or 30.07.

So, sorry, your theory is busted.

[goose]

[K.Mooneyham]

Tell me to knock it off if I'm off-base on this one, but maybe someone wants to slap a "gunbuster" sticker on their door to keep guns out instead of posting the proper signage per the law? Just a thought...

[mreed911]

Tell me to knock it off if I'm off-base on this one, but maybe someone wants to slap a "gunbuster" sticker on their door to keep guns out instead of posting the proper signage per the law? Just a thought...

Then it has no legal bearing on anyone with an LTC.

Carry concealed and there's ZERO violation.

Carry open and there's violation only if you fail to leave after having been given proper notice.

[mojo84]

Tell me to knock it off if I'm off-base on this one, but maybe someone wants to slap a "gunbuster" sticker on their door to keep guns out instead of posting the proper signage per the law? Just a thought...

They can do that and some may comply. However, it does not constitute trespass if someone with a LTC ignores it. It does apply to someone without a license though.

They would then have to give verbal notice or written notice with the same language as what is require for the sign for effective notice to be given.

[K.Mooneyham]

Tell me to knock it off if I'm off-base on this one, but maybe someone wants to slap a "gunbuster" sticker on their door to keep guns out instead of posting the proper signage per the law? Just a thought...

Then it has no legal bearing on anyone with an LTC.

Carry concealed and there's ZERO violation.

Carry open and there's violation only if you fail to leave after having been given proper notice.

Well, I know that, but maybe someone isn't happy to have to put up "big ugly signs", that's all I'm saying.