Are "split" signs legal???

[Ruark]

I'm seeing more and more "split" signs, where the English and Spanish versions are on two different signs. On some HEB entrances, they're on opposite sides of the door, about 25 feet apart! The penal code says "the sign," not the "the signs." It's singular. This might be splitting hairs, legally, and I don't know how far this would get with an LEO trying to bust you for carrying past it, but I just noticed these "split" signs appearing more and more frequently.

[WildBill]

I'm seeing more and more "split" signs, where the English and Spanish versions are on two different signs. On some HEB entrances, they're on opposite sides of the door, about 25 feet apart! The penal code says "the sign," not the "the signs." It's singular. This might be splitting hairs, legally, and I don't know how far this would get with an LEO trying to bust you for carrying past it, but I just noticed these "split" signs appearing more and more frequently.

Yes, I think you are trying to split hairs. If it came down to the sign you would be busted. Of course IANAL or LEO or DA, etc.

(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
- See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/ ... joTiK.dpuf

[SIRIT]

I'm seeing more and more "split" signs, where the English and Spanish versions are on two different signs. On some HEB entrances, they're on opposite sides of the door, about 25 feet apart! The penal code says "the sign," not the "the signs." It's singular. This might be splitting hairs, legally, and I don't know how far this would get with an LEO trying to bust you for carrying past it, but I just noticed these "split" signs appearing more and more frequently.

If the wording is right and in English and Spanish I wouldn't go past you DO NOT want to be the test case. It's not worth your time and especially not worth your money.

[AJSully421]

Nothing in the law says that it has to be on one sign, nothing says that it cannot be on one sign.

That would not be something that you would want to mess with.

Just conceal in HEB and go on down the road.

[TrueFlog]

I've been wondering the same thing lately. Section 30.06 defines "written communication" as "a sign posted on the property that includes the language ... in both English and Spanish". A strict reading would mean that both the English and Spanish wording must be together on the same sign. If a business posts the English wording on one sign and the Spanish wording on a different sign, one could argue that they haven't met the requirements of 30.06. It's certainly a grey area though, so I wouldn't want to be the test case.

Here's a picture from Texas3006.com that illustrates what we're talking about. It shows the sign(s) from the Houston Zoo. (Yes, I know the zoo is on public property, so the signs aren't valid anyway. But that's not the point, I'm just using it here as an example.)

[TrueFlog]

Yes, I think you are trying to split hairs. If it came down to the sign you would be busted. Of course IANAL or LEO or DA, etc.

(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
- See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/ ... joTiK.dpuf

I think that depends on what "card or other document" means. To me, the context makes it clear that a sign is not a card. If it were, then there would be no need for section (c)(3)(B). Moreover, if a sign qualifies as a card, then no 30.06 sign would need the Spanish wording. And I think we can all agree that's not the case.

[WildBill]

Yes, I think you are trying to split hairs. If it came down to the sign you would be busted. Of course IANAL or LEO or DA, etc.

(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
- See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/ ... joTiK.dpuf

I think that depends on what "card or other document" means. To me, the context makes it clear that a sign is not a card. If it were, then there would be no need for section (c)(3)(B). Moreover, if a sign qualifies as a card, then no 30.06 sign would need the Spanish wording. And I think we can all agree that's not the case.

It says a "card or other document." Other document means anything that the words that are printed, engraved, etched, painted, drawn, written. etc.
It's really that simple. If any of you want to try to split hairs with LEOs, DAs or Lawyers, do so at your own peril.
They are must better at it than you. And they also get paid to do it. And you are the one that pays them to do it.

[ScottDLS]

Yes, I think you are trying to split hairs. If it came down to the sign you would be busted. Of course IANAL or LEO or DA, etc.

(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
- See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/ ... joTiK.dpuf

I think that depends on what "card or other document" means. To me, the context makes it clear that a sign is not a card. If it were, then there would be no need for section (c)(3)(B). Moreover, if a sign qualifies as a card, then no 30.06 sign would need the Spanish wording. And I think we can all agree that's not the case.

It says a "card or other document." Other document means anything that the words that are printed, engraved, etched, painted, drawn, written. etc.
It's really that simple. If any of you want to try to split hairs with LEOs, DAs or Lawyers, do so at your own peril.
They are must better at it than you. And they also get paid to do it. And you are the one that pays them to do it.

So is a sign in 4 point type, with no Spanish a "card or document" if it is not handed to you?

[thetexan]

"A sign" posted on the property that includes the language ... In both English and Spanish.

Let me ask you this...if I gave you a huge Websters dictionary and asked you to pick some words the means put both English and Spanish on the same single sign which words would you pick to get that point across if the current wording doesn't do it??!

tex

[Ruark]

Yes, I think you are trying to split hairs. If it came down to the sign you would be busted. Of course IANAL or LEO or DA, etc.

(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
- See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/ ... joTiK.dpuf

I think that depends on what "card or other document" means. To me, the context makes it clear that a sign is not a card. If it were, then there would be no need for section (c)(3)(B). Moreover, if a sign qualifies as a card, then no 30.06 sign would need the Spanish wording. And I think we can all agree that's not the case.

[Ruark]

We're getting off topic. I'm not talking about a card that is handed you per "giving notice." I'm talking about the 30.06 sign that is posted outside. The code says, and I quote:

(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language ... in both English and Spanish;

Don't worry, I have NO intention of walking past any such sign, regardless. I'm just asking out of curiousity if, technically, a "split" sign is legal, as I have seen at some locations where the English and Spanish versions are 20+ feet apart.

[bortaz]

This might be splitting hairs, legally, and I don't know how far this would get with an LEO trying to bust you for carrying past it, but I just noticed these "split" signs appearing more and more frequently.

Why are you looking to get past the intent of the store owner? If they have the sign posted, you know their intent...they don't want you to carry there. Even if the sign is off by a half centimeter in size or one hue in color.

[ScottDLS]

This might be splitting hairs, legally, and I don't know how far this would get with an LEO trying to bust you for carrying past it, but I just noticed these "split" signs appearing more and more frequently.

Why are you looking to get past the intent of the store owner? If they have the sign posted, you know their intent...they don't want you to carry there. Even if the sign is off by a half centimeter in size or one hue in color.

Maybe he's going to conceal and carry so he doesn't give a darn what the owner's intent is if it doesn't legally prohibit his entry...

[WildBill]

We're getting off topic. I'm not talking about a card that is handed you per "giving notice." I'm talking about the 30.06 sign that is posted outside. The code says, and I quote:

(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language ... in both English and Spanish;

Don't worry, I have NO intention of walking past any such sign, regardless. I'm just asking out of curiousity if, technically, a "split" sign is legal, as I have seen at some locations where the English and Spanish versions are 20+ feet apart.

There is no requirement in the law for the sign to be contiguous.

[Ruark]

Why are you looking to get past the intent of the store owner?

Why do you assume I'm trying to "get past the intent" of the store owner? I'm just asking whether its legal or not; I have NO intention of violating it either way. Some of you guys just love to throw crap at people. I'm just making conversation here, OK? Keep yer shirt on.

There is no requirement in the law for the sign to be contiguous.

Right, there's not. So I'm just going by the exact language of the law: "A sign ... that includes ... both English and Spanish..." Two signs 30 feet apart isn't exactly "a sign."