First time seeing obvious "printer"

[goose]

I have occasionally seen belt clips for a holster. And once I was kind of sort of sure I could see a gun. This was the first and only time I really knew.

It was at HEB yesterday morning. Guy had a full sized something or other. And it was covered well with a t-shirt. Except that the shirt was thin and it constantly draped to the rear of the grip, between his body and the grip. I watched a bit from afar in both the produce section and the meat isle. What was patently obvious to me, not another soul seemed to notice. But it left me feeling uneasy about some of my favorite t-shirts. This is only an issue because I truly do want concealed to be concealed. I wondered if a heavier weight shirt would hang less on the grip. But I also wondered if he had on a belt. When I am wearing a good belt my own pistols are generally held close to my body. The "printer" was getting a pretty good gap between his torso and the grip if he leaned over at all.

I finally decided that it was mainly a reminder to always belt up. I have on occasion gone without a belt when using the G43 and even rarely with the 26. I won't anymore.

1) Belt.
2) No one notices. Or at least not many, if any.

[jrs_diesel]

Nice that you spotted someone carrying. I have yet to see that myself.

Most days when I go out in town, I have on a polo or a button up shirt, helps break up any outline. I've ventured out a few times with just a T-shirt (only ones that are "roomy"), and I a bit more aware of things around me. From what I've seen, nobody notices.

[goose]

And I don't want to imply I see folks very often. Twice I have seen belt clips from tuckable holsters but nothing resembling a gun. Once I saw a very suspicious gun-ish type lump. And then this guy. I wish I saw more. Well, maybe more belt clips, anyway.

Out of nine years here in TX and seven in OK, I'm not doing too well. Or we as a collective are doing CC very well.

[goose]

I received my license in the mail on Friday and I have already been out to several stores. I constantly feel like everybody sees it but my wife and my full length mirror assures me that it isn't noticeable at all. I will get used to it, I guess.

You will get there. And I have never been completely at ease. IMO, a small bit of tension leads to attention to details. Which is probably why we never hear of "man-with-a-gun" calls on LTC folk. The tension does get a lot better though. My focus has changed from "Can everybody see me?" to "Have I done my diligence?" As long as I feel like I have done my diligence (good belt, good positioning, etc) then I am at basically at ease. It is when I do things like popping out to the store without a belt that I feel awkward.

[Jusme]

I have seen a few people printing, but I think as LTC holders we tend to be more aware of others anyway. I know that I have printed several times, but I also know that the majority of others, never notice. Most don't even notice when I OC. If the guy the OP saw was printing with a gap between his body and grip, he more than likely was wearing a kydex holster, like I have that doesn't hold it high and tight. My leather holster will only print if I wear an extra tight t-shirt or polo. anything that drapes more hides it pretty well.

[Scott in Houston]

I've seen at least 5 or 6 fanny packs, usually carried by older type folks (65+), that were undoubtedly carrying a little .380 or something in there.

I personally carried for 1.5 years before my wife even knew. I did that to test it out, and then just kept going. She didn't noticed until she saw me arming myself one evening. People just don't notice this stuff.

[Maxwell]

In the past 8 years I've seen 4 or 5 people printing that were obvious to someone looking for it. I've only seen one open carry so far. As far as I'm concerned, I don't worry about it anymore. Concealed is concealed but if I do show, no one seems to notice or care. I even gave my cover shirt to Mrs. Max in a restaurant (she was cold and I am chivalrous) and no one took a seconds' notice.

[thetexan]

Thankfully "printing" as it relates to concealment is a thing of the past. The definition of 'concealed handgun' was removed probably due to the confusion it caused in connection with the new intentional display rule. But printing is merely a topic of polite conversation now.

One 'prints' (presumably since it was never clearly defined) when one gives away the fact that one is carrying by some tale tell hint that a gun is present (this is where it played into the old 'concealed handgun' definition). Printing has no effect unless, of course, your intent is to conceal the fact that you are carrying! The display rule clearly divides the 'display' or 'concealment' of the handgun into two possibilities with razor sharp precision. One either intentionally physically displays, in whole or in part, the handgun so that it is clearly visible to a person in a public place...or one does not. I can wear a tight fitting shirt so tight that I can tell I have a Glock 19 under it as well as printing on the side of the tee shirt "Glock 19 HERE" with an arrow pointing to the place where the gun is!!!! But until I intentionally physically display the gun in whole or in part in such a way that it is clear visible to a person in a public place I have not violated any rule unless that intentionally displayed handgun IS NOT in a belt or shoulder holster.

But, we all know this.

I think most people are carrying concealed and trying hard not to print so that the presence of the gun is truly a secret. I have only seen one guy that I thought was carrying because of printing. Sometimes you can tell I have a gun because of the way the grip sticks out away from my side, but I don't think about it much. I conceal when I can and open carry when I am dressed in business attire. So I'm not too worried about it.

tex

[vjallen75]

I was under the impression that if I was in a store displaying a 30.07 sign, that I had to be completely concealed including printing. So, as long as the firearm is not visible, it is considered concealed? That puts me at ease. I love this forum, I am always learning something new.

[wtgib]

I was under the impression that if I was in a store displaying a 30.07 sign, that I had to be completely concealed including printing. So, as long as the firearm is not visible, it is considered concealed? That puts me at ease. I love this forum, I am always learning something new.

I don't believe there is anything in the LTC laws that say anything about "printing". You could wear your tightest fitting shirt that would clearly outline your handgun but as long as it is covered you are concealed.

[Papa_Tiger]

I was under the impression that if I was in a store displaying a 30.07 sign, that I had to be completely concealed including printing. So, as long as the firearm is not visible, it is considered concealed? That puts me at ease. I love this forum, I am always learning something new.

I don't believe there is anything in the LTC laws that say anything about "printing". You could wear your tightest fitting shirt that would clearly outline your handgun but as long as it is covered you are concealed.

That being said, you do run a much higher risk of being given oral notification to leave the store if you are "printing" and they have 30.07 signs posted. That is, assuming anybody notices and complains to management and management decides to do something about it.

[oljames3]

I was under the impression that if I was in a store displaying a 30.07 sign, that I had to be completely concealed including printing. So, as long as the firearm is not visible, it is considered concealed? That puts me at ease. I love this forum, I am always learning something new.

Since I bought my first pistol in 2013, I carry openly where I can, conceal as the situation dictates, and disarm only if I must. As I approach the doors of HEB (30.07), I untuck just enough of my shirt tail to cover my pistol. I tuck it around the pistol nicely so as to completely cover the holstered pistol. As I exit, I unwrap my shirt tail from the pistol and stow it behind the grip. Keeps HEB happy with minimal fuss for me.

[thetexan]

I was under the impression that if I was in a store displaying a 30.07 sign, that I had to be completely concealed including printing. So, as long as the firearm is not visible, it is considered concealed? That puts me at ease. I love this forum, I am always learning something new.

Here is the controlling statute...

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder’s person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place. It is an exception to the application of this subsection that the handgun was partially or wholly visible but was carried in a shoulder or belt holster by the license holder.

So for the prosecutor to successfully obtain a conviction against you for not having a concealed licensed handgun he must...

1. Prove that you are a holder of a license authorized by Subchapter H, Chapter 411 Government Code
2. Prove you carried a handgun on or about your person
3. Prove that the display of the handgun was intentional
4. Prove that the intentional display of the handgun was in plain view of another person
5. Prove that the intentional display of the handgun that was in plain view of another person was in a public place
6. Prove that during this intentional wholly or partial display of the handgun it was not in a shoulder or belt holster.

That's 6 elements of the charge the prosecutor must prove. So those 6 items essentially define the difference between a legally concealed and legally open carried handgun.

A concealed handgun is not defined. Nor is a open carried handgun. What IS defined is the CONDITION AND DEGREE OF DISPLAY of a handgun for you to not be in violation of 46.035a. What you then find is that anything is allowable with a handgun that you wish to keep NON-DISPLAYED if it does not meet the above definition of intentionally displayed. And if the gun is wholly or partially and intentionally displayed it must meet the above 6 requirements.

And no where in all of that is printing an issue or concern.

tex

[rotor]

I have never seen printing and have never seen open carry unless it was LEO. Maybe I don't get out enough.

[Soccerdad1995]

I see folks carrying on occasion. I always notice their eyes and body language first, then I look for signs of a weapon on the appropriate side depending on whether they are left or right handed.

The latest was at a Houston seafood restaurant chain I call "the boat" because it is shaped like a boat. I can't remember the actual name. I was sitting at the far side of the restaurant with a clear view of the door. There was a wait, like usual and I noticed a guy walk in. His eyes were scanning the room as he stood in line having a conversation with his buddy, and his body language looked like he was in condition yellow. I couldn't see his waist from where I was sitting, but told my wife that he had a gun. When we left, we walked by him and sure enough, there was the bulge and the fold of his T-shirt on his right side as he sat on the stool enjoying his dinner.