Austin ISD sign

[78641]

I've seen that sign on an Austin elementary campus. At that school the signs are posted on the outside of the fence, at the sidewalk and parking lot. They put up a lot of those signs. It seems clear that when they mention "school property" they mean any piece of dirt inside that fence.

Given the part of town that school is in, I am sure if anyone thought someone was carrying there would be hysterics. Legal to carry or not, those folks would go bananas.

[frankie_the_yankee]

As I see it anyone who is intimidated by those signs probably doesn't understand the law well enough to be safely carrying.

I don't necessarily disagree with that.

I also find it hard to believe that the school district didn't know what they were doing when they posted the signs. The school districts I'm familiar with don't do anything without talking to their legal council. They are within their legal rights to post these signs. It might be deceptive but it is legal.

This is basically shootthesheet's argument, that the purpose of the signs is to bluff out whoever they can.

I think you're giving them too much credit. Most districts that take this approach post large 30.06 signs at parking lot entrances. Doing that would bluff out many more people, IMO. I base this on the fact that the guy who ran my renewal class, who certainly should know better, was confused on this issue.

Whether they consulted their legal counsel or not means nothing. Back in RI, I had a member of the School Committee, who was also a well-known lawyer, tell me to my face that it was flat out against the law for anyone except a cop to carry on school property. He was completely unaware that the law he was citing had an exemption for people with RI Pistol Permits. (I didn't bother telling him that I had such a permit and was carrying at that moment, as we were walking out of a School Commottee meeting held at the local junior high.)

That sign reads like a hissy fit directed at CHL holders. "Whether you're licensed to carry or not...."

Oh well. At least they didn't say, "Whether your licensed to carry or not..."

FWIW, our ISD here in Smithville doesn't post signs like that. Instead they have signs on the entrances of each school building stating that it is illegal to carry weapons in the building. (I forget the exact wording, but the signs didn't bother me when I saw them last year. I had left my carry gun in my car.)

[frankie_the_yankee]

Yes.

[frankie_the_yankee]

Double post.

[Liberty]

Is this the section that prohibits a public school that receives tax dollars from posting a legally binding 30.06 sign?

PC §30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY
CONCEALED HANDGUN.

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the prop-
erty on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased
by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which
the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under
Section 46.03 or 46.035.

Sorta, but,
A public school can legally post a 30.06 sign. It's just that the sign is unenforcible.

There are exceptions. For example, a hospital can be government owned. It is legal to carry in a hospital unless it is 30.06 posted. In this case the 30.06 sign is valid on Government property.

[lrb111]

Someone needs to show up at an AISD meeting and demand to know how much of the tax payers money went into those illegal signs, who's idea are they, and who authorized spending the money.

Looks to me like they can be nailed, and no "test case" repercussions.

[Hookemhorns1997]

I have a questions that relates to schools.

I am a high school basketball official (and a CHL) and am confused on whether I can leave my gun in the car in the school parking lot when I go inside to officiate a game. Obviously, I can't take the gun inside, but if I can't keep in the car, where can I keep it?

Thanks for any help.

[Photoman]

Someone needs to show up at an AISD meeting and demand to know how much of the tax payers money went into those illegal signs, who's idea are they, and who authorized spending the money.

That's a good idea except they are not illegal, just incorrect.

Still, a lot of time and money was expended designing, making and installing a bunch of incorrect signs and if I lived in Austin I would want to know who messed up.

[Photoman]

I have a questions that relates to schools.

I am a high school basketball official (and a CHL) and am confused on whether I can leave my gun in the car in the school parking lot when I go inside to officiate a game. Obviously, I can't take the gun inside, but if I can't keep in the car, where can I keep it?

Thanks for any help.

It is my understanding that the only time you cannot have your gun in you car in the school parking lot is when there is an official school activity going on in that parking lot. If there is an official school activity going on in the parking lot, just park on the street.

[78641]

Someone needs to show up at an AISD meeting and demand to know how much of the tax payers money went into those illegal signs, who's idea are they, and who authorized spending the money.

That's a good idea except they are not illegal, just incorrect.

Still, a lot of time and money was expended designing, making and installing a bunch of incorrect signs and if I lived in Austin I would want to know who messed up.

I don't think they messed up. I think they knew exactly what they were doing. They want to keep weapons off school property, and even without being enforceable, they hope these signs will be a deterrent. I wouldn't go there, armed or not, just because those people are a little crazy, and they don't like my kind

[frankie_the_yankee]

I don't think they messed up. I think they knew exactly what they were doing. They want to keep weapons off school property, and even without being enforceable, they hope these signs will be a deterrent.

But a deterrent to who? A rampage killer? A gang banger?

It looks to me that these screechy signs are "aimed" at the CHL'er, who just happens to belong to the most law-abiding segment of society.

I wouldn't go there, armed or not, just because those people are a little crazy, and they don't like my kind

I don't think "crazy" is quite the correct word.

[Charles L. Cotton]

There's some ignorance and anger in this thread that needs to cease. . . .

Yes it does. I'm long past being tired of turning every other thread into a rant or broad-brush diatribe against an identifiable segment of society. There seem to be a few members that think it's okay and keep pushing the envelope -- it's not!

I've given several subtle and some not-so-subtle warnings in posts over the last several months and I'm through doing it. TexasCHLforum is not here so certain members can use it as a bully-pulpit to denounce anything and everything they don't like with wholesale condemnation of certain groups of people.

This thread started with a post about signs posted on Austin schools. Discussing the signs is helpful because our members and readers may well be faced with the decision to cross these signs or not. Bashing all educators as being dumb and responsible for the signs is both a grossly unfair stereotyping and unproductive. It turned the discussion away from the enforceability of such signs, or how to go about getting them removed (as is going on right now in my hometown), and toward either bashing or defending educators.

I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that almost a year of taking a statesmanlike approach to growing problems is not working. There are people who invariably view restraint and kindness as weakness and that's truly a sad situation. Thankfully, these members are few -- and soon they will be gone. If you have to rant and attack everything and everyone you don't like or agree with, then go to tx.guns; you'll love it there.

Lest anyone complains that I'm trying to quell legitimate discussion, even outrage over some injustice, that is not my goal at all. There are times when most of us are incensed over something and expressing that in compliance with forum rules is absolutely fine. But when 2/3 or more of a member's posts are rants, often attacks on other members or certain segments of society, then that's going too far.

The timing of this post is not related to the last few posts. I was going to post it this morning, but I wanted to get the opinions of all Moderators before doing so.

Chas.

[Liberty]

If you have to rant and attack everything and everyone you don't like or agree with, then go to tx.guns; you'll love it there.

Aww, gee wizz. tx.guns isn't that bad. Charles I think it must have been a while since you have been there. It's pretty civil there most times. if you filter out the cross posts and one or two trolls. Some might even consider it a bit dull.

[stevie_d_64]

Well from what I can see, the limitations or parameters a CHL instructor has in the required cirriculum may need to be adjusted to really plant a hardy seed of study in students who may or may not grasp the full idea behind the where you can, and can't go when you are carrying...

For the most part I feel comfortable knowing where those boundaries are...

Sometimes the discussions here do create a real emotional stance in some people...Bashing the people who instigate these types of signs and unilateral prohibitions is something that just happens...Maybe its better here, than not having a place to "reasonably" vent those frustrations with people we identify with...

Personally, (and I have suggested this in the past) I believe it would be a good thing to get a movement going to get the law amended to provide substantial penalties for those who incorrectly post prohibitive signage, either by where it is placed or by the wording used...

This state legislature has gone to great lengths to provide the uniform manner in which entities that can could post those signs correctly...Its about time to turn the tables on them again to get their act togather and do it right, or not do it at all...And if it continues, I am sure local and state governments would love the chance to create another mechanism to line the coffers...

And stop getting CHL'ers bowels in an uproar about this...I have always said this to anyone when these types of issues come up in conversation:

"Texas Concealed Handgun Licencees are not the problem!"