CHLer arrested in improperly posted hospital

[srothstein]

She was not arrested for violating the sign, she was arrested for violating policy that she was given notice of. See my post regarding the response from the Police Chief. They consulted the DA already. BTW, this was a psychiatric hospital where even LEOs must disarm.

I agree. I had not gotten to your response when I wrote that. From what I can see now, the question would be if the writing was in the wording of 30.06. And it seems, from the news reports posted, that it will be an interesting test case for the jury and appeals court. Of course,t hat may change when the lawyers start playing with it.

And, for everyone else, it may also help to cover the department from a civil lawsuit if the DA accepts the case and does prosecute, even if he loses. The department is allowed to rely on the advice of the DA as to the legality of the arrest.

[KC5AV]

§ 411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES

b) A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety
Code, or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and
Safety Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the
hospital or nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with
the requirements of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that
the sign include on its face the number "51".

c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must
give notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a
person licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the
premises. The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block
letters at least one inch in height

I've never noticed this sign at the hospital where I work, and I've been in and out every entrance there is to the building. I supposed I could have just missed seeing it, though. I guess I will have to take some time Monday to look for it specifically.

[Liberty42]

So from this discussion, I understand that the Nurse was arrested for violating a company policy, not a state law?

Can a company have any employee arrested for violating corporate policy when that policy does not break the law?
(i.e. No sandals on the operating room floor,...or your going to be ARRESTED??)
I agree that she could be fired, but not arrested.

Your thoughts?

Tony
NRA member

[tbranch]

So from this discussion, I understand that the Nurse was arrested for violating a company policy, not a state law?

They arrested her because they claim she was given written notice by her employer not to carry in the hospital. What's left to be seen is if the written notice was 30.06 compliant.

Tom

[Liberty42]

So the written notice they are claiming could have been a "company memo". Even if the wording in their written notice is 30.06 compliant, wouldn't it still be an invalid "sign" since that wording is not what has been assumed to be posted at the entrances to the hospital?

Tony

[legend]

When I took my CHL class, my instructor told us that even though hospitals have to have the 30.06 sign posted, they often times have college classes, residency, etc., within the hospital which would make it illegal. That said, I usually don't carry into a hospital. I would if I felt unsafe though...

§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the
license holder's person:

[TEXT REMOVED]
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate,
or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking
place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a
handgun is used in the event;

[Liberty42]

Thanks Russell,

I see now that the progress of this case is clearly riding on the wording of this "internal communication" to the Nurse.

Good to know.

Moreover, did you hear here comments about her home being burglarized 2 times recently. And she said she has a walk of over 100 yards from the door of the hospital to her car alone at night, unescorted.

I'm waiting eagerly to follow the progress of these charges and her case.

Thanks again,

Tony

[tbranch]

So the written notice they are claiming could have been a "company memo". Even if the wording in their written notice is 30.06 compliant, wouldn't it still be an invalid "sign" since that wording is not what has been assumed to be posted at the entrances to the hospital?

Tony,

I see Russell posted the definition of "written notice." Proper written or any verbal notice overrides the signs.

Tom

[dihappy]

http://www.wfaa.com/video/wfaageneral-i ... vid=207805

Here is the link to the report....The Bedford PD spokesman is so WRONG in his statement.

Now that the word is out that the hospital gave specific notice about guns in the workplace, the 30.06 warning is moot.

However, I cant believe the Bedford PD spokesman. Where did he get his education from? He's a PD spokesman for crying out loud. How can he make such a horrendously incorrect statement. Sheesh

[dihappy]

[EDIT]

And I just realized that this is a Methodist hospital. I did some quick searching, and found that the UMC organization has similar views:

Violence and, more particularly, violence to children and youth is a primary concern for United Methodists. We recognize and deplore violence which kills and injures children and youth. In the name of Christ, who came so that persons might know abundant life, we call upon the church to affirm its faith through vigorous efforts to curb and eliminate gun violence.

Gun violence is killing America's children. Based on statistics from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, there are an estimated 223 million firearms in the United States. Approximately one out of every four households owns a handgun. The risk of handgun violence to children and youth is more prevalent in the United States today than in any previous generation. Our communities and schools are so exposed to large numbers of privately owned guns that no mere attempts at providing slightly better security can match the awful threat of guns finding their way through our well-intentioned safety systems.

A significant total reduction in the numbers of guns in our communities is our goal in ministry. We serve and our society's children go to school amidst passionately violent segments of current youth culture. No appeals to individual autonomy are sufficient to justify our church's ignorance of this threat. The need to prevent the incidence of firearm-related injury and death is an issue of increasing concern and a priority U.S. public health issue. The United Methodist Church is among those religious communions calling for social policies and personal lifestyles that bring an end to senseless gun violence.

Gun violence in America's schools has emerged as a growing and disturbing trend. The United Methodist Church supports ministries that address the issue of violence and crime prevention for children/youth in urban areas through the Communities of Shalom. Violence is no longer confined to the streets of urban areas but has occurred at an increasing rate in suburban communities. Over the past several years, high-profile cases of school shootings involving suburban youth killing and injuring teachers and peers alike have once again brought the issue of guns and youth to the forefront of national attention.

These acts of senseless violence should not be an acceptable occurrence in any community: suburban, urban, or rural. The church must continue to address these issues of violence and develop programs to enrich the lives of all children/youth.

In light of the increase of gun violence affecting the lives of children and youth, we call upon The United Methodist Church to:

(1) convene workshops of clergy and other mental health care professionals from communities (urban, rural, and suburban) in which gun violence has had a significant impact in order to discuss ways by which The United Methodist Church should respond to this growing tragedy, and to determine what role the church should take in facilitating dialogue to address the issue of gun violence in our schools and among our children;

(2) educate the United Methodist community (parents, children, and youth) on gun safety, violence prevention, adult responsibility around gun violence prevention, and the public health impact of gun violence;

(3) identify community-based, state, and national organizations working on the issue of gun violence and seek their assistance to design education and prevention workshops around the issue of gun violence and its effect on children and youth;

(4) develop advocacy groups within local congregations to advocate for the eventual reduction of the availability of guns in society with a particular emphasis upon handguns, handgun ammunition, assault weapons, automatic weapons, automatic weapon conversion kits, and guns that cannot be detected by traditionally used metal detection devices. These groups can be linked to community-based, state, and national organizations working on gun and violence issues;

(5) support federal legislation to regulate the importation, manufacturing, sale, and possession of guns and ammunition by the general public. Such legislation should include provisions for the registration and licensing of gun purchasers and owners, appropriate background investigation and waiting periods prior to gun purchase, and regulation of subsequent sale;

(6) call upon all governments of the world in which there is a United Methodist presence to establish national bans on ownership by the general public of handguns, assault weapons, automatic weapon conversion kits, and weapons that cannot be detected by traditionally used metal-detection devices;

(7) call upon the print, broadcasting, and electronic media, as well as the entertainment industry, to refrain from promoting gun usage to children;

(8) discourage the graphic depiction and glorification of violence by the entertainment industry, which greatly influences our society, and recommend that these issues be addressed through education and consciousness raising;

(9) call upon the federal and state governments to provide significant assistance to victims of gun violence and their families; and

(10) recommend that annual conferences make visible public witness to the sin of gun violence and to the hope of community healing.

(found at http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=937 )

Thank you so much for this info :)

[dihappy]

The question is, was this written notice applicable to Section 30.06?

PC §30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY
CONCEALED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if
the license holder:
34 PC §38.01. TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter
411, Government Code, on property of another without effective
consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed
handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was
forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the
owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the
owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:

(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language
identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code
(trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person
licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed
handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed
handgun";

I suppose if they consulted the county DA and the DA said go ahead with the case, it must have been, which is unfortunate for her

Not only that, but is a violation of a "written notice" given to employees a city/state crime?

Why was she not told to leave, or was she? Why did she have to be arrested?

Im betting that the Police did NOT know the law and arrested her on a violation of a supposed "posted sign"

[Liberty]

http://www.wfaa.com/video/wfaageneral-i ... vid=207805

Here is the link to the report....The Bedford PD spokesman is so WRONG in his statement.

Now that the word is out that the hospital gave specific notice about guns in the workplace, the 30.06 warning is moot.

However, I cant believe the Bedford PD spokesman. Where did he get his education from? He's a PD spokesman for crying out loud. How can he make such a horrendously incorrect statement. Sheesh

The stories are conflicting, and dynamic. someone is changing stories. Its not good enough to claim she got verbal notice, they have to have proof.

[stevie_d_64]

If in fact the story is correct and there is nothing more to it (like policy banning employees from carrying) I imagine the DA will not even accept charges.

I hope she then seeks State and Federal Criminal civil rights violations against the department.

The attitude that "you may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride" goes through me like a knife. I'd like very much to see the city pay for the trip.

Chas.

The effort and results would certainly send the right message to those that need the education...