Disturning reading...very disturbing.

[Afff_667]

There was a reference the other day in TexasCHL Forum to another forum, forums.officer.com, where some very good information could be found as regards AR-type rifles. I went back to that forum this morning to see what other good bits of info I might pick up and came across a thread called "Disarming CCW carriers." I hope this link works because I encourage everyone here to take a few minutes to read some of the posts from LEO across the country concerning their feelings on disarming a pefectly legal CHL holder.

http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?t=87148

There are some very, very disturbing comments there, one in particular from Erik from Metro Detroit as to the relevance of the 2nd Amendment in modern America. Even more troublesome was a comment from someone called txpolice agreeing completely with Erik's comment. I recognize the difficulties faced daily by LEO. As a former firefighter/paramedic, I dealt with the general public daily and recognize that going home at the end of the shift is paramount. However, most of the comments I read really, really concern me....

Taking into consideration the reality of the internet, the comfort of relative anonymity, and the need to blow of steam, inflate one's ego, sound important, etc...what the heck?

I am in no way anti-LEO, so I don't want my post here to be taken in the least as any kind of indictment of LEO, their job, or it's inherent risks. These comments simply caught me completely off guard.

[seamusTX]

I agree that is some odious dialog. I also suspect some of the posters are not really police officers. They seem too ignorant.

The idea of a police officer removing a weapon from the wearer's holster while the wearer is seated in the car is shocking.

If "anyone can go off" during a traffic stop, do police disarm off-duty police officers when they have an official encounter with one?

By having a CHL, a person has proven that he has avoided a lot of bad bahavior, including felonies, dishonorable discharge from the military, commitment to mental health treatment, all misdemeanors except the most minor ones for at least five years, and certain debts. He has taken the course, passed the test, ponied up the money, and passed state and FBI background checks.

Is that person going to "go off" because of a traffic ticket and go to prison for murder?

Since anyone can have a weapon, legally or not, or use the car to attack the officer, why don't they handcuff every driver so that they can "go home at night"?

- Jim

[WildBill]

That is why I stay on this forum. There are enough idiots in the world that I don't need to go looking for them.

[AEA]

[ScubaSigGuy]

Those posts are pretty disturbing and out of hand.

I hope the crazies stay on that site.

[DoubleJ]

"It's like playin' cards with my brother's kids..."

[Tactical_Texan_CHL]

DoubleJ, where'd that line come from? I know it but can't place it.....

[DoubleJ]

Tombstone.

Billy Bob Thornton's character says that to the other card players at the beginning of the movie right before Wyatt whoops, and walks him out of the bar/casino.

"Skin that smokewagon and go to work."

"you gonna just stand there and bleed?"

also good lines from the same scene.

[Drifter]

Was I the only person that caught the fact that CityCopDC, who seems to be the major instigator in this mess, appears to be from Washington, DC?

Recall the case before the Supreme Court now, and where it all started?

What would you expect?

[frankie_the_yankee]

Those posts are pretty disturbing and out of hand.

I hope the crazies stay on that site.

I hope they are not actually out on the street carrying badges and guns. Most of them seem like they either would or should fail the psych screening.

Most of the idiots on that thread seem to be unaware of three things.

1) A criminal who might be thinking of ambushing them is not going to tell them they are carrying a gun.

2) Criminals can't get CHL's.

3) How often do people holding CHL's ambush cops during traffic stops and shoot them? (Answer: Never.)

And a few of these jerks seem to be from TX. Funny that I haven't gotten the slightest hint of any sort of attitude like that on the part of TX cops who have pulled me over from time to time.

And what is the DC cop doing on that thread? What does he know about people with CHL's? I'll bet he doesn't disarm FBI agents and other feds when he pulls them over, and that they would tell him to go jump in the lake if he tried.

[flintknapper]

What a shame.

The last time I saw that kind of “arrogance oozing from every pore�…a person completely filled with “self importance� and sense of “authority�…was when I was 17. And no…that person wasn’t me.

If I live to be 100 I will always remember that, and be thankful the other Officer had sense enough to call off his partner before things turned bad.

It still exists….I am sad to see.

Interesting read.

[smyrna]

Here's my take...I fully respect an officer's right to disarm me upon lawful contact if it makes him feel safer. Although I am not, and never will be an officer, I fully understand that his number one priority is to make it home safely to wife, kids, etc.

Having said that, I also BELIEVE that officers, or any of us for that matter, are more in danger of weapons we don't see or know aboutthan the CHL who notifies the officer upon contact. What about the clean cut drug dealer who is armed to the hilt but plays it cool and the officer never knows the difference? Does CHL raise such a flag that warrants disarming every contact? I think not, but the reality is, it's not my call when I'm pulled over.

With regard to the posters on the other forum, what troubles me the most is their (some of them) "I don't care..." attitude. I've seen this attitude in virtually every profession, doctors, lawyers, teachers, plumbers, etc. They nor anyone in any profession with that attitude can ever earn the respect of their peers or the public and they're too ignorant to know why, so they revert to intimidation and fear tactics as they interact with others. So, the guy that said that the 2nd amendment is outdated is just as likely to disagree with me on the weather and be a jerk about it because he sees himself as inherently more important than anybody else.

Thank God that most people of this caliber almost always self select themsleves out of positions of true authority where they could really muddy the water.

[casingpoint]

Just wear your CHL/CCW badge and the cops won't hassle you.

[txmatt]

I'm ashamed to admit that I read that whole thread. It was rather disturbing, but I did not a few mitigating facts:

Many who responded seemed to be under the impression that the original poster was getting upset about officers disarming CHLs. What, of course, he was raising a concern about was the cuffing/ rough treatment when the only reason was a CCW. Not many CHLs would argue that cops shouldn't be able to disarm CHL holders for the duration of the stop if they feel that it is necessary, and I don't think this was clear to many of the posters there.

The most vocal pro-disarm/I don't care were from urban high crime areas, like the DC cop mentioned by drifter. Given that he has never encountered a legal CHL holder in his jurisdiction, one can kind of understand the "only bad guys have guns" mentality. And though I hate to say it, I have read about DC's hiring standards and the trouble they have filling positions with qualified individuals.

And finally given the complete lack of any grasp of the English language by many of the posters on that thread, I would venture a guess that many are not over the age of 13 and are not, and I hope will never be, LE. I truly hope this to be the case for the one that claimed to be studying criminal justice and found the 2A to be "antiquated."

[flintknapper]

Some interesting excerpts:

If you get disarmed, deal with it. You will get your gun back when the stop is done and over with. No harm, no fowl. You can be away from your gun for the 15 minutes you are issued a citation. So sorry if you feel that infringes on your holy second amendment right.

Its for officer safety and for yours. Deal.

By the nature of my profession, I don't like being around other people that are armed unless they are LE.

Sorry you were mortified....
Yes I would disarm your wife, grandmother, uncle or aunt.
If you do as I say you wont be "thrown on the hood".
How you "feel" does not concern me..

Having a CCW, to me, doesn't make you any different than anyone that's being stopped on a traffic stop. Regardless of the situation, YOU HAVE A GUN, AND GUNS ARE USED TO KILL PEOPLE. Its as simple as that.

So since Im running the show, when I disarm you, youll understand.

I want you to go home alive also. Which Is why you need to follow my instructions

The fact that people keep starting threads about how much it irks them when their guns are temporarily taken away from them by police shows in fact why their guns need to be temporarily taken away from them by police.
There seem to be some weird, unhealthy attachment issues going on with these CCW holders toward their guns. I'm going to have to agree with Erik in that some type of therapy might be necessary

Get over yourself. If you get your gun taken away for all of 15 minutes its not going to kill you. But you having a firearm could kill me so consider your gun mine till the stop is over.

Please sue me. PLEASE!! Been sued before. Its a wonderful thing ESPECIALLY when you did nothing wrong. You pay for your lawyer, mine is provided through the police dept at no cost to me. Oh...and since Im being sued, I still have to work my 8 hours AND attend the proceedings for the civil suit. Its called overtime. Last time I was sued, I bought a deck for the back of my house. That suit paid for a deck and many fight parties at my house. All because someone felt that they were wronged. They were not and recieved NOTHING other than a bill from their high priced lawyer. Do it, its your right and the american way.

Etc….but I’ll just stop here.