Do you carry "Round Chambered" or not ?

[Jesse1911]

In a traditional properly functioning 1911, 3 things have to happen in order for it to fire from "cocked and locked"...

1. Thumb safety off,
2. Grip safety depressed,
3. pressure applied to trigger with "booger hook".
The first two can happen in any order but BOTH must happen before the third.

Now if it's a Series 80, yet another "safety" has to be overcome. The initial take-up of the trigger actuates the small plunger in the slide that allows the firing pin to move past the hole in the slide when struck by the hammer.

That's three (or four depending on how you look at it) very deliberate things that must happen. That's pretty safe if you ask me, so I vote "cocked and locked".
How many things have to happen for DA revolvers to fire? What about striker fired pistols? I think a "cocked and locked" 1911 is intimidating for some because unlike the DA revolver, the potential energy needed to cause a discharge is visible; hammer cocked.

Another way to think about it is this...other than the steps above, what could cause a "cocked and locked" 1911 to fire?
Possibilities...
[*]The hammer hooks break off. Unlikely to cause a discharge since no pressure was applied to the sear, so the sear will likely catch the half cock notch.
[*]The hammer hooks are too shallow and the sear misses them or slips off easily. More likely to cause a discharge when you release the slide to chamber a round AKA "hammer follow" or "sear bounce". Hopefully the hammer only follows to half cock.
[*]The tip of the sear breaks off. More likely to cause a discharge since the tip of the sear is what catches the hammer hooks or the half cock notch.

Now, I'm sure that each of the above HAVE and WILL happen because nothing is impossible, but they would truly be freak events. YMMV

The main reason I posted this thread is because I own a 1911A by Springfield. And like you mentioned, it looks scarry looking at the hammer cocked ready to strike the firing pin . But I guess I should not fear that, or should I My intentions was to buy a revolver and keep this one in my car, but now that you clearly put all these facts together, Im rethinking the situation and might keep it as my daily carry, what do you guys sugest?

[Kalrog]

..., what do you guys sugest?

I suggest you not carry something that you are uncomfortable with - regardless of how valid that discomfort may be. If you don't like the C&L aspect of a 1911, but you like the 1911 then check out the LDA from ParaOrd. I have one and think it is the best carry gun out there for a variety of reasons, but one of them is that there is nothing sticking out AT ALL to catch on clothes. I would suggest that if you go LDA, that you go ONLY LDA - not have some SA and some LDA 1911s.

The other option is to get comfortable with C&L with your current 1911. Easier said than done since the fear/discomfort isn't logical.

Okay, one more options. You could get that other gun for carry and make the 1911 a range only gun. But that would be my last choice. Not because I dislike other guns, but because I really like the 1911 as a carry platform.

[smyrna]

..., what do you guys sugest?

I suggest you not carry something that you are uncomfortable with - regardless of how valid that discomfort may be.

Good advice! Meanwhile take Karlog's advice and try to get more comfortable with your Springfield.

And, if that Springfield just won't cooperate with you...well just send her to me!

[AJSully421]

what shall we call call a loaded Glock... condition zero? its pretty close to a cocked and unlocked BHP... I once carried a 92f cocked my rationale was that the 4 pound action was still heavier than my 3.5# glock trigger... i've grown up since then... and sold the beretta for a second G17.

ONE IN THE PIPE IS THE ONLY WAY TO CARRY. If you are not comfortable with one in the hole you are a perfect candidate for revolvers... which don't have one in the hole, they have one in the NEXT hole, which is completely different.

[frankie_the_yankee]

If you don't have a round chambered, will you have time to actually deploy your weapon and use it? It might be argued before a grand jury that, since you had time to load the weapon and/or chamber a round, you were not in immediate danger.

Nah. If anyone ever burned for that, their lawyer should go to prison right alongside them.

And that's not even taking the Castle Doctrine into account.

But don't get me wrong. I always carry with a round chambered for a number of good reasons.

[frankie_the_yankee]

As far as carrying with a round in the chamber goes,

1) It's the only way to fly.

2) If someone can't get comfortable with Condition 1 carry, I would suggest a DAO type.

But of the DAO pistols available out there, I would lean strongly to one that has a visible hammer. This is because if the hammer is down, there's is virtually no way that the gun can go off without someone pulling the trigger. And the whole process is fully visible to the user.

With a traditional DAO, you have to charge the mainspring with each trigger pull. This makes for a heavy trigger. That's why I like the LDA type. The mainspring is charged by the act of cycling the slide (like some striker fired pistols), so the trigger pull can be light. But at the same time, the hammer is visibly in the "down" position. So even if the internal (multiple) safety mechanisms failed and the mainspring somehow released, the hammer would not be capable of driving the firing pin forward to light off the round.

Internal striker fired pistols may well be every bit as safe, but you can't see what is going on in there. So if you have a vivid imagination, you could envision (correctly or not) the internal mechanism failing and driving the striker forward, allowing the gun to fire.

While this may well be just as irrational as being worried about a C & L 1911 pistol spontaneously going off, fear is fear whether it has a real cause or not.

With an LDA, everything is right out there in the open.

Plus, the trigger pull is sooooo nice!

[Doug.38PR]

When I carry an automatic, I carry with the magazine inserted and no round in the chamber. If I am in a "more dangerous than usual" situation (like driving home late at night or in a bad part of town) I will rack one in the chamber...and remove it THE INSTANT I get home or in safe quarters.

But that's too much trouble and too many things that can go wrong (inherint of an automatic) which is why I typically carry a revolver.

[CodeJockey]

When I carry an automatic, I carry with the magazine inserted and no round in the chamber. If I am in a "more dangerous than usual" situation (like driving home late at night or in a bad part of town) I will rack one in the chamber...and remove it THE INSTANT I get home or in safe quarters.

But that's too much trouble and too many things that can go wrong (inherint of an automatic) which is why I typically carry a revolver.

My concern with that methodology, besides having to worry about having enough time and presence of mind to rack the slide should I need my weapon, is that it could become confusing as to whether I'm carrying chambered or not. I think repetition and training are crucial when it comes to the high stress situation of a deadly force encounter. Using variables that change such as sometimes carrying chambered and sometimes not would seem to be to be a potential problem.

The other issue I'd be concerned about is a KB from repeatedly rechambering the bullets. I've seen samples of KBs caused by that very thing from the bullet being seated deeper as a result of repeated chambering leading to increased pressure. Just my $.02.

[Doug.38PR]

I didn't know such a thing could possibly cause a KaBoom. I agree with the fact that it could become confusing whether one is chambered or not. Furthurmore, it could just as easily become confusing whether one is chambered or not in any event (which could lead to an accidental discharge during a careless moment).
All of these things are why I typically carry a revolver. (hence my screename Doug.38PoliceRevolver) Fewer things that can go wrong.
That being said, I do carry my Sig 226 9mm or Springfield 1911A1 .45 frequent enough to stay familiar with them.

[WildBill]

If you are not comfortable with one in the hole you are a perfect candidate for revolvers... which don't have one in the hole, they have one in the NEXT hole, which is completely different.

Are you suggesting having one empty chamber in a revolver?

[RHZig]

If I carry (on duty) my Glock of course it's hot.

So why not carry my Kel-Tec with one ready to rip?

[CodeJockey]

I didn't know such a thing could possibly cause a KaBoom...

Yeah, repeatedly rechambering the round can cause the bullet to seat deeper in the casing, even minor changes in the seating can cause pressure to increase by an order of magnitude. This can quickly exceed tolerances and cause the KB. Just throwing that out there. If I have to unchamber, I make sure and mark that round and shoot it at my next trip to the range. Can't be too careful.

[AJSully421]

If you are not comfortable with one in the hole you are a perfect candidate for revolvers... which don't have one in the hole, they have one in the NEXT hole, which is completely different.

Are you suggesting having one empty chamber in a revolver?

some here are suggesting having an empty chamber on an auto pistol... and no, i'm pointing out that the round that is in line with the barrel isn't the one that shoots off, it's the next one on the cylinder... so any one who is still nervous after the 10 pound DA pull, they can feel much better about that.

[thankGod]

One in the pipe on the Glock 19.

However, I have a new LCP (haven't made it to the range yet, hopefully this coming Tuesday), and if you put one in the pipe, then this little jewel is cocked. There is no safety nor de-cocking lever, so I am very leery of having this baby in my pocket in that condition. I would feel much better with one in the pipe.

P.S. The instruction manual that came with the LCP references a de-cocking lever, however I think they meant the trigger.

[frankie_the_yankee]

One in the pipe on the Glock 19.

However, I have a new LCP (haven't made it to the range yet, hopefully this coming Tuesday), and if you put one in the pipe, then this little jewel is cocked. There is no safety nor de-cocking lever, so I am very leery of having this baby in my pocket in that condition. I would feel much better with one in the pipe.

P.S. The instruction manual that came with the LCP references a de-cocking lever, however I think they meant the trigger.

It might be internally cocked, but the hammer is down. No way can it go off that way. It's made to be carried with a round in the chamber, and it's a Ruger.

So load it, chamber a round, top off the magazine, and you're good to go.