Open Carry In The News

[HerbM]

Open carry would also be another obstacle the anti gunners would have to deal with before they get to our CHLs. I'm all for that!

Good point!!! Push 'em back. Push 'em back. Waaaay baack!

As one of the proponents here of open carry, I asked in the thread that I started that we take the argument over Open Carry tactics over to the experienced folks at OpenCarry.org http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/, especially VA, PA, NC, and some of the more active states.

Most of us aren't qualified to say what open carry tactics make sense (yet), but we do KNOW that Open Carry causes NO significant problems just like CHL/CCW concealed carry cause NO significant problem.

We all should have the CHOICE. No one should be required to open carry, nor concealed carry, nor even own a firearm. No license nor even training should ever be required by the state. Not to own, not to carry concealed, nor openly.

Training is good, but there is no evidence (none) that training makes a difference to open nor concealed carry. Get training because you want to be safe, not because the government setup a barrier to you exercising a right.

Maybe some people do think that because we have "training" and we have a "license" we are special -- we are not.

Maybe some people think it is impossible but then 40+ states with essentially Shall Issue Concealed Carry would have sounded impossible in 1990. Defeatism is never a valid argument.

Anti-gunners always start the propaganda war with "blood in the streets", "return to the wild west", and "shoot outs at every red light" etc, but these things just don't happen in any significant way no matter how many gun control laws get kicked to the curb.

Problems with law-abiding citizens and firearms are virtually non-existent.



And none of use should be punished nor denied our rights due to the bad behavior of OTHER PEOPLE, e.g., criminals.

[The Annoyed Man]

I think the biggest mentality here is that of some CHL holders feeling like they're part of some "elite" group of people,and that allowing OC by everybody would somehow invalidate the value of their CHL. Maybe it's a feeling of loss of the $200+ for the class and licensing when everybody else wouldn't have to pay.
IMO, CHL holders would be minimally affected by an OC law if the Texas legislature were to allow the simplistic "ghostbuster" or other "no guns allowed" signs to be the stopping point for OC like a 30.06 is the stopping point for a CHL holder. It'd be really simple to enforce that since people would be OPENLY carrying their firearms.
JL

I don't feel like my CHL makes me part of some kind of elite group - other than the fact that it makes me even more aware of my social responsibilities than before. And what is $200? It's not even the price of a decent pistol. I want to make clear that I am not, in principle, against the concept of open carry, even if I were to choose to continue to CCW for myself.

But, as far as I know, those states that currently have OC have always had OC; or they passed OC back in the days before gun rights became a really hotbutton topic. Given the current political climate (and I signed the petition for OC, by the way), I do fear that the political fight over it might turn out to be more damaging to our rights than they already are. Every few years, the country experiences a resurgence of conservatism, in the same way that it is currently experiencing a resurgence of liberalism. In terms of pure political practicality, it is usually more effective to pursue specific high profile agendas when the political climate most favors those agendas, and the risk of damage to those high profile agendas is highest when activism in favor of those agendas occurs when the political climate least favors it. In other words, you make your gains when things are in your favor, and you hold your ground when they aren't. Things have been generally in our favor for a little while now, and we have consequently made some progress. But, I sense that they are about to swing against us soon, and it will be time to hold our ground and wait for the next window of opportunity.

So, even though I would favor an open carry law, and I signed the online petition in favor of it, I worry that certain aspects of activism in that direction may turn out to be rash in the long haul, and I counsel caution and the seeking after wisdom in its pursuit.

[eric]

Open carry in Texas is fine with me, concealed would still be my choice to avoid potential problems with anti-gun folks. And true many other states allow it but most folks would rather not put it on display for questions. Out of sight, out of mind.

[135boomer]

We don't want to "hold our ground", we need to gain ground! I remember when the sight of a gun wouldn't raise an eyebrow in California! They thought they were holding ground. History shows that they lost it.

[Charles L. Cotton]

If open carry was an issue at all in the 44 states where it is legal then it would be made illegal faster than a democrat changing his position based on a poll in an election year.


Anygunanywhere

Well put and the hard,cold truth.
JL

Not if no one is open-carrying.

Chas.

[casingpoint]

An open carry badge is more better than a concealed carry badge.

[Wildscar]

Wow I never thought I would start a thread topic that ever got past 2 pages.

My thoughts on OC is that it should be a choice that CHL holders would have. Maybe make less of a big deal if some one does catch a glimpse of your firearm. While I did sign the petetion I would still probably carry concealed. I would only open carry if it was really hot out side and I was going to out in it for an extended period of time.

[KC5AV]

If open carry was an issue at all in the 44 states where it is legal then it would be made illegal faster than a democrat changing his position based on a poll in an election year.


Anygunanywhere

Well put and the hard,cold truth.
JL

Not if no one is open-carrying.

Chas.

Exactly. I wonder how many (non-shooting enthusiasts) in those open carry states even realize that it is legal in their state?

[HerbM]

I wonder how many (non-shooting enthusiasts) in those open carry states even realize that it is legal in their state?

They are learning -- that is what the very healthy open carry Internet site and groups are doing.

(Re-)Establishing their rights -- getting people, citizens and police used to it again.

It's working. No significant problems.

And yes, more and more are carrying, just like CHL/CCW grows.

We can make up a million reasons why it won't work but the simple truth is that:

It's all good.

[Rayden]

Open-carry isn't about safety, it's about choice. I personally believe the cost will be far too high in terms of drastic increases in the number of places that are off-limits either statutorily, or by way of 30.06 signs.

Chas.

BINGO!!!!!!

[SA-TX]

If open carry was an issue at all in the 44 states where it is legal then it would be made illegal faster than a democrat changing his position based on a poll in an election year.


Anygunanywhere

Well put and the hard,cold truth.
JL

Not if no one is open-carrying.

Chas.

Charles, I'm loath to disagree with you but I doubt that many businesses would post 30.06 as a result.

First, that assumes that the law allowing open carry is based on those with a CHL. That may be true but maybe we'd be able to get unlicensed open carry No 30.06 concerns there.

Secondly, as you mention, even in those states whose laws have NEVER restricted open carry, it is rarely practiced as a percentage of the overall population. Thus the chance that an anti business owner will run across an open carrier isn't very good.

Thirdly, I think that open carry is truth-in-advertising and it gives an anti business owner the opportunity to ask someone to disarm or leave. Maybe they will post 30.06 in the future as a result; maybe they won't. Either way, as a property rights issue, it is good for them to know what's going on inside their business. For this reason alone, ANTI people should support open carry because they can benefit even though they haven't taken the time to post 30.06

Honestly, my projection of the impact is this: tiny. A small percentage of the CHLers or general law-abiding public (depending on how the law is written) would actually open carry. The vast majority would not. The good news is that worries about printing (despite the wording of the current statute that ought to put most people's worries to rest "intentionally or knowingly"; not accidental or inadvertant) or accidental exposure would be eased.

Finally, aside from the important philosophical reasons to support it (regaining lost liberty, TX being on the "loser list" of states, etc.), the very practical one is sooooo compelling: it is H-O-T here and sometimes concealing or fully concealing is inconvenient. Think about riding a bicycle or a motorcycle (bent at the waist, leg movement, etc). Concealing under these conditions can be problematic. As a practical matter, I think it would directly benefit very few, but I think as a matter of principle it ought to be pursued. Personally, I can name some times where I had to choose between carrying and not carrying because concealing was going to be such a burden. I'd love to have the option of going open, even if I don't know how much I'd use it. I'll take more freedom/choice every day of the week.

SA-TX

BTW -- since I am directly addressing an attorney, can you give me your legal opinion (not whether it is wise) on whether or not openly carrying a pre-1899 firearm is legal? No one will give me a straight answer and, no, no matter what you say I'm not going to go out and do it. It is just a point of intellectual curiousity (although I do have this definitely pre-1899 S&W safety hammerless .38 ... ). Just kidding. I have no desire to sample the county's "hospitality". It does distress me a bit that this maybe completely legal (you tell me), but yet we shy away because those charge with upholding and enforcing the law are ignorant of it.

[iratollah]

Question for the proponents of OC. Why don't you open carry your long guns today? Think of the deterrent value if 4 of you are sitting in the park or the Dairy Queen with your Remington 870s. Throw in maybe an M4 into the mix just for a little variety. This is legal, so long as the DQ manager has no issue with it and the park is public property. Why aren't you doing this sort of thing today if OC is such a great idea and an ideal exercise of your 2A rights?

[Pinkycatcher]

Question for the proponents of OC. Why don't you open carry your long guns today? Think of the deterrent value if 4 of you are sitting in the park or the Dairy Queen with your Remington 870s. Throw in maybe an M4 into the mix just for a little variety. This is legal, so long as the DQ manager has no issue with it and the park is public property. Why aren't you doing this sort of thing today if OC is such a great idea and an ideal exercise of your 2A rights?

I don't have a shoulder strap?

[carlson1]

Question for the proponents of OC. Why don't you open carry your long guns today? Think of the deterrent value if 4 of you are sitting in the park or the Dairy Queen with your Remington 870s.

I don't carry a long gun, except when traveling but I like the option that I can. What makes no since is carrying a long gun that is capable of killing a lot more people than the pistol on your side. I would not OC often, but I also like the ideal that I can.


--
Why are we asking permission to do something we already have the God given right to do?

[HerbM]

Question for the proponents of OC. Why don't you open carry your long guns today? Think of the deterrent value if 4 of you are sitting in the park or the Dairy Queen with your Remington 870s. Throw in maybe an M4 into the mix just for a little variety. This is legal, so long as the DQ manager has no issue with it and the park is public property. Why aren't you doing this sort of thing today if OC is such a great idea and an ideal exercise of your 2A rights?

Good idea. We should have a meet sometime.

But mostly it is a matter of convenience -- a long gun ties up your hands even if you sling it -- and when slung is isn't nearly are ready to be deployed (as all soldiers know, you don't sling a rifle when you think there might be combat.)

Again and again, the behavior we see is that people who either don't want, or don't understand open carry retread the tired old arguments and lies we hear from the gun banners.

If you are one of the ones inventing reasons not to do this, ask yourself why you are having an emotion reaction and not going over the OpenCarry.org and discussing the technical and tactical details with expert and experienced people?

Why would anyone with a CHL or who even owns a firearm at home favor gun control?

Gun control is wrong. ALL gun control.

None of it can be proven to work. None.