how do gun stores do it?

[mr.72]

I am sure I am missing something in the PC...

Gun store employees routinely carry openly inside the place of business, even if they are not the owner.

As far as I can tell, the law says:

PC §46.035.

UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.

(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.



PC §46.15.

NONAPPLICABILITY.

(2) is on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of the owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility is to act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision (5);


So it appears that, unless the employee's primary responsibility is as a security guard, then in a gun store, OC is illegal. Certainly I am missing something because it is common practice.

The reason I am asking is to clarify under what circumstances an employee might be allowed to open-carry in their place of employment.

It seems that I have to conceal my handgun on any property except that which I own or that is under my "control". I don't know what it means for it to be under my "control", but I would think, that means either my own property or if I am leasing it, etc.

Can anyone shed some light on this subject?

Thanks!

[TDDude]

If you have permission from the owner of the business, you can carry any legal firearm however the owner sees fit. The gun store employees have control of the property as it were so they are allowed.

If your boss allowed you to carry openly in your office, then that too would be legal.

Once they step outside, it's cover up time......

[mr.72]

So, let's say I am employed by a church. Can I get permission to intentionally fail to conceal while working at church?

[TDDude]

So, let's say I am employed by a church. Can I get permission to intentionally fail to conceal while working at church?

If the one who is ultimately in charge says it's ok, then yes, I don't see why you can't. At my church, that would be the head pastor or business manager. They both have CHL's.

When I took my first CHL class, there was a church group there from one of the 5th ward churches in Houston. They were doing some amazing work in the area getting kids off drugs and busting up gangs. Of course, they were getting death threats and firebomb threats so they had the entire church staff there taking the class. From the head pastor down to the secretaries and volunteer groundskeepers, they were all taking the class.

I sincerely hope they are open carrying.

[WildBill]

So it appears that, unless the employee's primary responsibility is as a security guard, then in a gun store, OC is illegal. Certainly I am missing something because it is common practice.

You aren't missing anything. It is illegal for employees to OC in a gun store, but no one seems to care enough to enforce it.

[ricor]

They are not open carrying. They are modeling the products.

[KBCraig]

If you have permission from the owner of the business, you can carry any legal firearm however the owner sees fit.

Please cite the section of Texas code that exempts you from PC 46.02 or 46.035 if you have "permission from the owner".

[Pinkycatcher]

PC §46.15.

NONAPPLICABILITY.

(2) is on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of the owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility is to act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision (5);

"an employee" or "an agent etc."

two different clauses in the sentence, unless you can show me subdivision (5) and it leads to the idea that there's only one.

But, IANAL

[Mike1951]

(2) is on the person's own premises or premises under
the person's control unless the person is an employee or agent of
the owner of the premises and the person's primary responsibility
is to act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or
property, in which event the person must comply with Subdivision
(5);
.................

(5) holds a security officer commission issued by the
Texas Private Security Board, if:
(A) the person is engaged in the performance of
the person's duties as a security officer or traveling to and from
the person's place of assignment;
(B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform;
and
(C) the weapon is in plain view;

I have always interpreted this to mean that the owner or a manager would be allowed since they control the premises.

Employees would not qualify unless they were licensed security officers as specified in Subdivision (5).

Open carry in gun stores falls under the "we've always done it that way" clause.

[apostate]

Open carry in gun stores falls under the "we've always done it that way" clause.

Much like buyers without a CHL carrying a handgun "on or about his or her person" on the way home from the gun store.

[TDDude]

Employees would not qualify unless they were licensed security officers as specified in Subdivision (5).

Open carry in gun stores falls under the "we've always done it that way" clause.

I most humbly stand corrected.

I guess one can't trust everything they hear in their CHL class.

Perhaps gun stores could get some of the employees to go concealed to help sell concealment gear. They could play "Pick the clerk with the gun" type games to see who conceales the best.

Anyway, many apoplogies and thanks for setting me straight.

[rm9792]

All the private property rights being bandied about here lately yet no one feels the store owner can let his employees carry openly? If I have guests over they are allowed to wear openly all they want right? Thsi is why I say there is a difference between commercial private property and residential private property.

[KD5NRH]

Employees would not qualify unless they were licensed security officers as specified in Subdivision (5).

You're assuming that control of premises cannot be delegated or divided. Try that one on your wife sometime.

Do you know that the owner doesn't allow the employees *any* control over the premises? I've worked small mom & pop retail in places where, if I decided I wanted someone out of the store, I could take the necessary steps and explain myself to management later. Unless there was a very good reason to reverse the decision, I might be in trouble, but the person removed would still not be allowed back in. That is a degree of control over the premises, and pretty much equivalent to what I have had as a manager at another job; I still had to defend my decisions, but they were binding unless rescinded by my boss.

If I permit someone to carry a gun on my property, it's a pretty strong indicator that I trust that person with a degree of control over it, but that doesn't mean that I completely abdicate my control over the property.

[KBCraig]

All the private property rights being bandied about here lately yet no one feels the store owner can let his employees carry openly? If I have guests over they are allowed to wear openly all they want right? Thsi is why I say there is a difference between commercial private property and residential private property.

No.

It's not about what we feel, it's about what the Penal Code says. Neither you as a host, nor the store owner, is mentioned in the PC as an exception to 46.02 or 46.035. Feel free to tell your guests that they can OC on your property; they would still be breaking the law.

I imagine that close to 100% of us feel that you as a host, or any other property owner, should be able to allow open carry or concealed carry as an exception to the law. Sadly, the law doesn't read that way. Don't blame us for how we "feel", when we quote the plain text of the law.

[rm9792]

Ok, "feel" was a bad word to use. If we are going to get technical then how is everyone open carrying at a gun show? The Law does not mention shows does it?