Carry ammo legality question. Non-LEO

[HighVelocity]

I recently decided to change my main CCW from a Glock to a 1911. For the last two days I've been running every kind of defensive ammo I can find through the 1911 to see what's the most reliable and accurate in this particular gun.
As it turns out, the most accurate and consistant is the Winchester Ranger 230gr +P SXT #RA45SXTP. Seriously, this gun loves this ammo and I want to carry it.
My question is, am I OK carrying this ammo? Two things cause me to ask this question. First, it says "Law Enforcement Ammunition" on the box and second, the actual bullets are black, ala Black Talon. I am concerned that if the occasion arose where I actual had to fire my gun in self defense that this ammo would raise a flag.

All informed responses appreciated.

[one eyed fatman]

There was a thread done on this. I think it was on fireingline.com. or thehighroad.com. Basically what it said was that no one has ever been to court because of the type of ammo they used, including reloads. If they could nail you to the wall because of the ammo you carry then I would think they could nail you to the wall for carrying a 45 cal instead of a 9MM. I need to try and find that thread.

[Charles L. Cotton]

There was a thread here also. I've put a "btt" on it to make it come up as a new post for you. It's Winchester Ranger T Series Ammunition in the General Gun, Shooting & Equipment section.

Regards,
Chas.

[one eyed fatman]

Well this goes a lot deeper than the question asked but here's the thread I was talking about.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/sho ... it+reloads

[Braden]

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with carrying the "law enforcement" ammo. But, I would suggest getting rid of the black talons and getting some NEW stuff (T Series). Nothing against them being black. I just like the idea of using fresh ammo. Besides...you could probably sell those black talons for big bucks. People collect those things.

[remington79]

There is a thread on packing.org that was started today about Black Talons. The consensus seems to be that the ammo was never made illegal but was voluntarily recalled.

[TraCoun]

I was told at ProDefense that Black Talons were illegal for non-LEO. There wasn't a law that banned BT, but a federal law change that banned ammo that has teflon. BT's supposedly have a teflon coat or something like that.
FWIW.
TraCoun

[txinvestigator]

I was told at ProDefense that Black Talons were illegal for non-LEO. There wasn't a law that banned BT, but a federal law change that banned ammo that has teflon. BT's supposedly have a teflon coat or something like that.
FWIW.
TraCoun

None of that is true.

Telfon coating does nothing to make a bullet more deadly, nor does it make it penetrate body armor. There is no federal ban against teflon coated bullets. Black Talons are not teflon coated anyway.

This link is not about Talons, but does explain teflon coating http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvcopk.html

Here is federal law about Armor Piercing ammo http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/legal/armor.htm

Black Talons were pulled by the manufacturer after much bad press. They are now available as Winchester SXT's, which stands for Same Xact Thing.

They are marked "Law Enforcement Use Only", but that is the manufacturers restriction and NOT law.

Black Talons AND SXT's are legal to carry.

One word of caution; it was written in a previous post that no one has been prosecuted for the type of ammo they carry. Even if you legaly use deadly force, if in doing so you recklessly kill or injure an innocent person you can be prosecuted. If you carry some "bear killer" hot reload that your neighbor bubba handloads and you pass thru your intended target and strike an innocent I believe you have given the prosecution ammunition (pardon the pun) to prove recklessness.

[ShootingStar]

HighVelocity,

I remember reading an article by Masaad Ayoob who brought up an interesting point. He suggested that civilians find out what ammo the police use and carry the same. If it ever became an issue, all you have to say is that since it says Law Enforcement ammo on the box you were carrying what the police use. Some LEOs use the Ranger ammo and some don't, but it sure sounds like a good defense. If the prosecutor makes anything out of it, he has to demonize the police as well.

I really don't think it would be an issue in TX, but if you travel outside the state, it could be. The article also mentioned a case in the state of CT where the law and the facts were on the side of the defendant who was involved in a legal shooting. The prosecutor then went for the ammo that the defendant used. He called as his "Expert Witness" a CT state trooper who went on Ad Nausium about how particularly deadly the Federal Hydrashock was that the civilian used in the shooting. The civilian was convicted in the end based upon the type of ammo that he used. Mosaad also mentioned that if the defense attorney had asked what ammo the CT state police used it would have blown his whole testimony. They also used Federal Hydrashock. Imagine that.

As for reloads, I could see a situation where using them could be a problem for you. If the bullet went through the suspect and hit an innocent third party then it could be argued that maybe they were too hot. Of course your defense could be that you loaded them to the same velocity as factory loads of the same bullet weight and type. Something to think about, though I wouldn’t chance it. With me it’s factory all the way. God Bless Texas.