Baton Rouge Shooting

[Commander]

Heard that there was a shooting today at a church in Baton Rouge that killed five. Shooter targeted his wife's family (grandparents) in the church. He shot her later at an apartment complex. He was later captured by police.
There have been some posts here about carrying in church. This just confirms that a shooting can occur there as well as anywhere.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,196369,00.html

[longtooth]

Every church needs a threat response plan. Ours has one. We are reviewing it Wednesday night. Hope we never need it.

[jbirds1210]

I don't know how many times this has occured, but it has happened often enough to cause me to pay great attention to where I sit at church.

My church is very large with a great deal of dark corners that would be somewhat inconspicuous to someone running through the door.

Hopefully it would give me enough time to get my gun, but these things surely happen very very fast with no warning.

Even if you were to get a shot at the person doing this....it would likely be a very dangerous shot to take because of crowds of people. I agree that we should all KNOW what we would do in this situation before it arrives. I once had a pastor that told me he would say a prayer for the person that did this in his church, but it would be after his magazine was empty He married my wife and I. Great guy and amazing with his 1911.
Jason

[gigag04]

A buddy of mine is on staff at second houston.

Second houston has its own armed security force. During the service, there are armed people on stage in suits with small radios (secret service...what?).

I'm sure there are armed people dispersed throughout the sanctuary. Mega church security is kind of intereseting huh?

[jbirds1210]

That is interesting. I wonder if my church does the same thing undercover? It is a real possibility that I never considered. I know they ask for volunteers for "security" but I always assumed that it was to make sure cars in the parking lot were not be vandalized or burglarized.

I will have to ask some questions.

The church always talks about getting "plugged in" to the ministry. This might be my ticket!
Jason

[gigag04]

The church always talks about getting "plugged in" to the ministry. This might be my ticket!

I think all these guys are commisioned security officers or PPO (bodyguards).

-nick

[jbirds1210]

ok?
For the sake of conversation...what if they weren't security guards or bodyguards?

This is strictly hypothetical...I was joking about doing this in my ministry, I am involved in other things, but I am curious about this.

If someone is volunteering their service as security and carrying a gun legally, what does it matter? There is really no reason to let anyone know that you are carrying.
Jason

[gigag04]

If someone is volunteering their service as security and carrying a gun legally, what does it matter? There is really no reason to let anyone know that you are carrying.

I think if someone is employed for the purpose of security, or officially in charge of doing so, that it would be in an organization's best interest to have a higher qualification standard, at least for liability purposes.

txinvestigator can probably offer much more info on this than I can.

-nick

[carlson1]

Every church needs a threat response plan. Ours has one. . . .Hope we never need it.

+1
All of my staff are armed.

[Houston1944]

20 years ago the only thing I worried about in church was if the preacher was going to talk too long and we would miss the Dallas Cowboys kickoff. Today we have armed guards in church along with many CHL holders feeling the need to carry while at church. During the past 20 years we have made huge gains in technological advancements to make our lives better. Maybe we need some research on how we got in this situation. I know we have always had crime in this country but not to the point that churches had to arm their staff.

[Lodge2004]

...During the past 20 years we have made huge gains in technological advancements to make our lives better. Maybe we need some research on how we got in this situation. I know we have always had crime in this country but not to the point that churches had to arm their staff.

I would love to see an unbiased study (if that is possible), but have my own theory.

30+ years ago, my father kept a shotgun in the coat closet near the front door, a pistol in a kitchen drawer and another on his nightstand. My grandparents kept a shotgun near the front door and another in the bedroom. Most pickup trucks had a shotgun and deer rifle in the gun rack. My grandmother kept a small pistol in her purse. I must assume these people were all doing these things way before I got old enough to notice.

Today, the number of firearms in the general population has significantly increased but you rarely see a rifle in a truck's gun rack because it would either scare people or be stolen if left unattended in a parking lot. Fewer guns are left unsecured around the house and more people are "licensed" to carry concealed.

It seems to me that not much has changed other than the way we view firearms. They used to be common tools that everyone had out in the open, but now they are more often locked up or carried concealed.

[gigag04]

I wonder if there are procedures in place among the security staff to account for a CHL holder reacting to a threat as well. In a a problem arises situation a CHL holder could be mistaken as an assailant.

Just a thought I had this morning.

[jbirds1210]

Should a CHL react or would it be a liability to the church? People might assume that you were working security
Jason

[txinvestigator]

Texas law is specific.

If the persons primary responsibility is to act in the capacity of a security guard to protect persons or property, the person must comply with Subdivision (5) of Texas Penal Code, section 46.15. Regardess of pay.


Texas PC 46.15
(5) holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas
Board of Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies, if:

(A) the person is engaged in the performance of the person's
duties as a security officer or traveling to and from the person's
place of assignment;

(B) the person is wearing a distinctive uniform; and

(C) the weapon is in plain view;



There is also a stipulation for concealed if the person is registered as a PPO.