Helotes Cornyval

[Derekhie]

The wife wants to go to this tomorrow. Does anybody know anything about this event? I'm not sure if I can carry or not. I think there is a Rodeo as well, which I believe would fall into the pro sporting event category.

[longtooth]

You can carry on the midway & to all the exhibits.

You cannot go into the Rodeo armed.

[Derekhie]

That is what I thought but it doesn't hurt to double check. Thanks for the response.

[tfrazier]

It might be posted, although the email below does not say so. Mr. Benke, one of the event officials, obviously believes it is not okay to carry inside the fenced area. If they make most of their money from sale of alcoholic beverages, well, there you go. It's probably like the San Antonio fiesta thingy:

From: James Benke <benkeinc@satx.rr.com>
To: tim@4fraziers.com
Subject: Re: CHL Holders at the Cornyval
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 08:00:56 -0500


Dear Tim

Cornyval has a Beer and Wine License from the TABC. The entire grounds that is surrounded by our chain link fence is considered a licensed premise. In other words when you walk in the admission gate, it is like walking in to a bar.
The parking lot is a different story.

No guns inside of the fence please.

Jim Benke
Executive Vice President
Helotes Festival Association
Cornyval 2009

[Keith B]

It might be posted, although the email below does not say so. Mr. Benke, one of the event officials, obviously believes it is not okay to carry inside the fenced area. If they make most of their money from sale of alcoholic beverages, well, there you go. It's probably like the San Antonio fiesta thingy:

From: James Benke <benkeinc@satx.rr.com>
To: tim@4fraziers.com
Subject: Re: CHL Holders at the Cornyval
Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 08:00:56 -0500


Dear Tim

Cornyval has a Beer and Wine License from the TABC. The entire grounds that is surrounded by our chain link fence is considered a licensed premise. In other words when you walk in the admission gate, it is like walking in to a bar.
The parking lot is a different story.

No guns inside of the fence please.

Jim Benke
Executive Vice President
Helotes Festival Association
Cornyval 2009

Well, it is not in the public database if you search either on the name Cornyval or any location listed in Helotes. I think I would ask to see a copy of their license.

[skip]

We just got back from Cornyval and there are 51% signs at the front gate.

[SlowDave]

Having been there a few times, it's hard to believe they make 51% of their income from alcohol sales. Seems like ~80% of attendees are middle/high-school students.

Since the other poster said they don't show up on the database, what's the procedure for checking on this with TABC or whoever? Or is the database mentioned The Database, and now it's just a matter of getting the 51% signs taken down?

[Keith B]

Having been there a few times, it's hard to believe they make 51% of their income from alcohol sales. Seems like ~80% of attendees are middle/high-school students.

Since the other poster said they don't show up on the database, what's the procedure for checking on this with TABC or whoever? Or is the database mentioned The Database, and now it's just a matter of getting the 51% signs taken down?

You can call the TABC or email and make a request about a license. It is possible the public database had just not been updated yet. Then again, it is possible they post the signs in an attempt to try and prevent carrying and don't really meet the requirement. Nothing illegal about that, just not right.

[srothstein]

The problem is that the Cornyval, along with many other events, will never show up in the TABC database that you can search. This is because they only get a temporary permit that is just good for the three days of the event. Temporary permits will also not have the "sign" line on them since they are handwritten out forms.

I honestly do not know who has a way to check the signs for 51 or not being correct. The licensing department might be able to, and the local compliance people might be able to get through to them, but I am not sure of the procedures for it. The problem becomes moot since it goes away before it can be investigated, even if we believe it will recur again next year. Each temporary is treated as a separate event.

[Keith B]

The problem is that the Cornyval, along with many other events, will never show up in the TABC database that you can search. This is because they only get a temporary permit that is just good for the three days of the event. Temporary permits will also not have the "sign" line on them since they are handwritten out forms.

I honestly do not know who has a way to check the signs for 51 or not being correct. The licensing department might be able to, and the local compliance people might be able to get through to them, but I am not sure of the procedures for it. The problem becomes moot since it goes away before it can be investigated, even if we believe it will recur again next year. Each temporary is treated as a separate event.

Thanks for the info Steve. One question; if they apply for the permit and indicate they are a 51% venue, then isn't the permit is written as such and the signs are valid? If that is the case, is the only way they would be over-ruled was an investigation to find they actually were not deriving 51% of their revenue from alcohol sales? (Okay, that's really two questions.) LOL

Thanks!

[AEA]

What a sack of worms this is turning out to be........

All good points though........

I personally think we should try and get Legislation to carry everywhere LEO's do. Then we will not have to worry about this type of stuff anymore and that will be really nice!

Maybe in 2011?
I hope so, I don't have too many years left to wait.......

[Furyataurus]

Another good point is that if it IS like walking into a "bar" why are there kids running around without parental supervision?

[srothstein]

Keith,

The answer to both questions is yes. If they tell us the money will be mostly alcohol sales, the permit is written as 51%. And it would take a thorough investigation to prove that they did not get 51% and overturn the permit decision. To make a difference in a court case for unlawfully carrying, it would take even more to prove that they deliberately lied on the application. If they submitted what they truly anticipated sales to be and the decision were made on that basis, the law would apply since it specifically says it is the TABC decision that counts.

[boomerang]

Another good point is that if it IS like walking into a "bar" why are there kids running around without parental supervision?

That would be a good law. Prohibit anyone under 21 from being on 51% premises. And make it a crime at least as serious as licensed carry on 51% premises! Drunk driving minors are a much bigger problem than people with a CHL carrying at a festival.

[Furyataurus]

Keith,

The answer to both questions is yes. If they tell us the money will be mostly alcohol sales, the permit is written as 51%. And it would take a thorough investigation to prove that they did not get 51% and overturn the permit decision. To make a difference in a court case for unlawfully carrying, it would take even more to prove that they deliberately lied on the application. If they submitted what they truly anticipated sales to be and the decision were made on that basis, the law would apply since it specifically says it is the TABC decision that counts.

That is what is messed up. IMO, they have to PROVE that 51% IS derived from alcohol sales and from what I've seen it wouldn't be more than 45%.