51% Sign Picture?

[KFP]

Does anyone have a picture of a 51% sign that you'd be willing to share?

[TDDude]

Well I just cruised the the TABC website looking for a sign and couldn't find one.

I found in the code where a sign is required but I never found where the code gave the text like it does with the 30.06 sign. I did searches for “51%”, “51 percent”, and “handgun” within the Alcoholic Code document and the sign text never showed itself. I’m sure it’s there somewhere and I’m missing it.

The other thing I noticed that the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Code is a crazy piece of legislation. My dad used to run with the TABC gendarmes and I remember him telling me that the Texas Alcohol laws were a crazy collection of regs and he always had to go on faith that they made sense to someone.

Anyway, the TABC website has some signs that can be downloaded but the 51% sign isn’t one of them.

I guess you figured that out already or you wouldn't be asking.

(I'm home from work with a cold and have a lot of time on my hands.)

[PUCKER]

I searched Google images for one using various search strings...no luck...LOL.

I've seen them before, I guess the best way is to go to a bar? I know the Fort Worth Flying Saucer has one posted at the main entrance, or at least it did last time I was there.

[joe817]

To my knowledge there is no such thing as a 51% "sign" per se. An establishment that receives 51% or more of its revenue is required to post the infamous "30.06" sign though.

In addition, if you actually go into a bar and look at the liquor license itself, it does say, on the actual license:

" Sign = Blue "

or " Sign = Red "

Of course Blue means you are safe to enter concealed, while Red means it's a 51% established, and you are in violation of PC 46.035(1) if you enter.

[MBGuy]

I can't believe I couldn't find a picture of one either, using Google or Bing. There is a TABC article that shows one on page 5 though.

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/publication ... ay9712.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 30.06 sign has nothing to do with alcohol, it's for any private property whose owner wants to keep out licensed concealed carry from the building and/or property. The 51% sign does exist, I've seen several.

[joe817]

I can't believe I couldn't find a picture of one either, using Google or Bing. There is a TABC article that shows one on page 5 though.
http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/publication ... ay9712.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The 30.06 sign has nothing to do with alcohol, it's for any private property whose owner wants to keep out licensed concealed carry from the building and/or property. The 51% sign does exist, I've seen several.

Thanks you for your response on this MBGuy, and the "article". The "article" is actually a flyer that TABC mailed out as a newsletter, and is dated December, 1997.....12 years ago.

My contention is that the 30.06 sign IS valid, if not mandatory, for a 51% bar. It's valid for ALL establishments that wish to bar(no pun intended) CHL holders from entering their premises while carrying concealed.

I'm not saying you did not see a 51% sign at all. What I am suggesting that it is an old, obsolete sign that is no longer valid, and the law has been updated since the owner of the bar posted it, and new laws are in place that supersede it.

The 51% sign is now on the liquor license itself.

I will let SteveR and others that are more knowledgeable in TABC's rules/laws and regulations than myself, to verify or discount my claim.

[joe817]

As an addendum to my above comments, I'd like to say I found the "51% sign". I was in error earlier when I said it doesn't exist.
HERE is the "51% sign" wording:

" —FELONY NOTICE—
The licensed or unlicensed possession of a weapon on
these premises is a felony
with a maximum penalty of
10 years imprisonment and
a fine not to exceed $10,000.
Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission
P.O. Box 13127 Austin, Texas 78711-3127
Toll Free 1-888-THE-TABC (Voice/TDD)"

It can be found on P.109, of the 2004 edition of the Alcoholic Beverage Retailer's Guide - What Every Alcoholic Beverage Retailer Should Know:

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/publication ... de2004.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Welllllllll........I just got off the phone with a lady that works out of the Dallas District Office of TABC, and after much explaining, she is claiming that the stand alone "51%" sign does indeed exist, and that all 51% establishments SHOULD have that sign posted in a readily visible place, either ON the door itself, OR in a place where every one who first enters the premises can see it.

Ok, I'm through researching. I'll let you all sort it all out. And when you've finished sorting it all out, would you pleassseeee explain it to me?

[KFP]

Thanks for the help so far, I've been trying to find a picture of one for my class, rather than just putting the wording up, but haven't been successful yet. I was hoping that someone may have a picture that they've taken of one.

Joe - If I'm understanding your question correctly, TABC requires anyone who sells alcohol to post one of two signs - 51% or the green unlicensed possession signs. Obviously, the 51% means we can't carry there, so requiring 30.06 would be redundant. Also, if you were the bar owner and supported RKBA, you wouldn't want to portray an anti-gun stance to your patrons. Also, you could have the potential that sales figures could change one year over the other and have two signs to deal with.

[joe817]

Most welcome KFP. My efforts were not futile. I did learn that the elusive sign does indeed exist. I've never seen one, as I haven't been in a pure bar since the mid 80's. Don't get me wrong I love a cold one every now and then, but when I go I always go to a bar within a restaurant(El Chico's, TGIFridays, Chili's, Mexican Inn, Joe T.Garcia's, Olive Garden, Saltgrass Steakhouse, etc). (you can tell I love Mexican Food). Somehow food and a cold one seem to go together.

P.S. The picture itself is on P.109 of that brochure in the url I posted.

[Crossfire]

Here's yer sign...

[joe817]

Yayyyy! You found it C.F.! Thanks.

[KFP]

Ha, thank you Crossfire!

[srothstein]

Joe817,

Well, I am glad someone found a copy of the actual sign. I was really surprised that none of the mandated signs are available for download on the TABC web site. Since they give the signs away for free, I cannot understand why they ar enot posted.

But here is the weird part of Texas laws. it is not just the Alcoholic Beverage Code that is confusing. It is all of our laws. The requirement for the 51% sign is NOT in the Alcoholic Beverage Code. Since the 51% sign only applies to CHL holders and was passed as part of the CHL law, the requirement for it is in the Government Code, section 411.204. The Alcoholic Beverage Code was amended to only require the non-licensed possession sign if they were not required to post the 51% sign.

So, a bar has to post one of two signs, either the 51% sign (sign=red on the license, from the red 51) or the non-licensed possession sign (sign=blue on the license). The license part is just a note telling us which sign is required. The bar may, of course, post a 30.06 sign if it wanted to but that is the owner's choice as 30.06 always is.

And, just as an example of how confusing the laws really are, the Government Code REQUIRES hospitals to post a sign saying it is illegal to carry there (worded just like the 51% sign but without the 51) even though this is no longer true. You can walk past the handguns are banned sign at a hospital unless it is posted with a 30.06 sign. And city owned hospitals are one of the very rare exceptions to 30.06 signs being valid on government property (you get charged with violating PC 46.035 instead of 30.06 though).

Now, who said the law has to make sense to someone?

[joe817]

Steve, thank you for your valued input. That's about as clear as six feet of muddy water. Yes it is confusing, but at least we all recognize that it is.

Seriously, your explanation does help greatly. Thanks again.

[TDDude]

But here is the weird part of Texas laws.........

From the repeating redundant department sections surplus descriptions department.

The requirement for the 51% sign is NOT in the Alcoholic Beverage Code. Since the 51% sign only applies to CHL holders and was passed as part of the CHL law, the requirement for it is in the Government Code, section 411.204. The Alcoholic Beverage Code was amended to only require the non-licensed possession sign if they were not required to post the 51% sign.

That's what I saw. Since it was an appendix attached to the TABC rules, I thought it was part of the TABC.

I guess that's one of the many confusing parts to which is referred.