Always be vigilent.

[GrannyGlock]

Longtooth, I really appreciate your calm call to action. You are welcome in my city anytime. That store is only 1.5 miles from my mom's house. Neighborhood getting rougher. I don't believe I have been in a 7-11 in my own city since I have had my license.

Just had my 15 yr old daughter read the message about the cell phone. We have spent a lot of time this summer talking about situational awareness, too. Good post.

[txinvestigator]

We have to be careful about asking someone if they are armed. We could inadvertently cause them to violate TPC §46.035(a) if they have a CHL and respond "yes."

Chas.

I disagree. The law says you must intentionally fail to conceal handgun, not fail to conceal the fact that you are carrying.

[txinvestigator]

[ Apparently, DPS doesn't agree as they teach Instructors that verbal disclosure that you have a gun is a violation.


Chas.

The never said that in either my initial instructor class, nor my instructor renewal class. I also asked my father who has been instructing since 1996, and DPS has never told HIM that either.


I just polled all of our instructors.......It'll be interesting to read their replies.

[Charles L. Cotton]

[ Apparently, DPS doesn't agree as they teach Instructors that verbal disclosure that you have a gun is a violation.


Chas.

The never said that in either my initial instructor class, nor my instructor renewal class. I also asked my father who has been instructing since 1996, and DPS has never told HIM that either.

I just attended the DPS CHL Instructor course this Monday through Wednesday. Sgt. Riddle expressly said that verbal disclosure was an "intentional failure to conceal." This was in response to a question from one of the students.

Again, I don't think it is either.

Chas.

[Crossfire]

The never said that in either my initial instructor class, nor my instructor renewal class. I also asked my father who has been instructing since 1996, and DPS has never told HIM that either.

I just polled all of our instructors.......It'll be interesting to read their replies.

And that's why we have so many differences of opinion on these finer points. It all depends on what was said in your instructor's class, or what was HEARD, or what you THOUGHT you heard, and what you remembered.

I know my classes vary from week to week, depending on what questions are asked, or what I might not have remembered to bring up at what point during the day. Sometimes I get sidetracked...

[Venus Pax]

Longtooth, you made a lot of wise decisions.
The comment on his hoodie could have gone either way, but usually it is a safe comment if made in a friendly manner.
there's no telling what he may have pulled had she been in the store alone.

[txinvestigator]

[ Apparently, DPS doesn't agree as they teach Instructors that verbal disclosure that you have a gun is a violation.


Chas.

The never said that in either my initial instructor class, nor my instructor renewal class. I also asked my father who has been instructing since 1996, and DPS has never told HIM that either.

I just attended the DPS CHL Instructor course this Monday through Wednesday. Sgt. Riddle expressly said that verbal disclosure was an "intentional failure to conceal." This was in response to a question from one of the students.

Again, I don't think it is either.

Chas.

How did you like it? Don't you love their range?

I think I'll have to email Riddle. She needs the extra stress.

[Glockamolie]

Is there any case law on verbal acknowledgement being failure to conceal?

[AV8R]

Speak to him as he comes in, "morning young man, is it really that cold out there this morning?" No reply. Makes a short round around a counter & out the door.

Something similar happened to my wife and me at the Rosa's on fourth and Quaker, across town, last winter. As we entered, I noticed what appeared to be a coverall-attired oilfield worker watching the wrong things the wrong way. He noticed that I was observing him with intentional eye contact, and left shortly after without ordering. We saw him again a few months later on the six o'clock news after his arrest for the armed robbery of a federal credit union. As you have said before, you never know where or when.

[Charles L. Cotton]

How did you like it? Don't you love their range?

I think I'll have to email Riddle. She needs the extra stress.

I was very impressed with the course and especially the personnel. I have never seen a group of people more dedicated to a program than Lt. Derrick and Sgts. Riddle, Holmes and Ripps. I didn’t know quite what to expect, based primarily on some derogatory comments by a certain female attorney with DPS. (She also presented the legal portion of the class.) Perhaps she had me expecting a bit of “me cop, you not� attitude but that couldn’t be further from the truth.

These folks weren’t just going through the motions, they are fully committed to the CHL program. They did an excellent job of making everyone in class feel that they are a part of one of the best programs in the country. They also wanted to make sure everyone understood the responsibility instructors have to CHL’s.

Sgt. Ripps gave a short but excellent speech on the importance of the Second Amendment. You’d be hard put to find a more intense firearms trainer. By that I don’t mean he has a volatile personality, just that he is adamant about the importance of proper training how that training can save your life, or cost you your life.

I won’t mention the name of the lawyer who did the legal presentation and I’m not going into any detail about her comments. Suffice it to say she was not well-received by the class and as an attorney, I found her legal analysis lacking.

The range is great! It’s the nicest range I’ve ever been on and I wish we had been able to do much more. When we were driving to the range Tuesday morning (the 3-day folks shot on Tuesday; the 4-day folks on Thursday), a guy driving a pickup was blinded by the sun and hit the gate to the range. Thankfully, no one was hurt, but what a way to start the day!

Regards,
Chas.

[txinvestigator]

I just call her the Liberal gun hating DPS attorney. Counselor Democrat.

She always has the class going

heeheehee

[Commander]

Charles, I've known Sgt Star Riddle for sometime so I emailed her about what she told you in class. Here is her response to me:

It was an opinion on my part when saying that if a person tells another that they are carrying a gun, it is no longer considered “concealed� because someone knows they have it. Case in point, recently a CHL holder followed a reckless driver to a convenience store. When the CHL holder got out of his car, he adjusted his shirt. When he approached the man he asked the man about his reckless driving. The man responded, “Why, do you have a gun?� Our CHL holder told him yes, he did. When the police arrived, the man told the officers that the CHL holder threatened him with his gun, at which time the officers arrested the CHL holder. How could he prove he did not threaten and how did the man know our CHL holder had a gun? That was the point I was trying to make. CHL holders should not be telling people they have a gun, this information could cause them some serious problems. The license was designed to have people carry to protect themselves or others, not to brag about the fact they have a gun…..understand my point?? At no time did I say it was unlawful to tell someone they are carrying……but, being “concealed� means no one knows you have it, right?

[Charles L. Cotton]

Is there any case law on verbal acknowledgement being failure to conceal?

None of which I am aware. It is still my opinion that verbally disclosing you are carrying doesn't constitute an "intentional failure to conceal." However, I have fond memory (/sarcasm) of being blind-sided by a comment during a radio interview shortly after SB60 passed. I was asked if telling someone you had a gun was unlawful and I said "no." She then said, "well we just interviewed Rep. Ron Wilson and he said it would be illegal to tell someone you had a gun." Since I didn't want to publically disagree with an ardent supporter of SB60 and a co-author of the House version, I just said, "well I guess this is where we have a difference of opinion." In the years since, I've heard others claim that verbal disclosure violates 46.035(a).

I'm happy to see S&W6946's post about Sgt. Riddle's comments.

Chas.

[sparx]

"but, being “concealed� means no one knows you have it, right?"

I would actually think that "concealed" means "hidden" and not in open view, not necessarily "secret." We "conceal" a lot of our body parts with clothes, but everyone knows what those body parts are. I don't quite follow her logic with that definition.

[kw5kw]

Charles, I've known Sgt Star Riddle for sometime so I emailed her about what she told you in class. Here is her response to me:

It was an opinion on my part when saying that if a person tells another that they are carrying a gun, it is no longer considered “concealed� because someone knows they have it. Case in point, recently a CHL holder followed a reckless driver to a convenience store. When the CHL holder got out of his car, he adjusted his shirt. When he approached the man he asked the man about his reckless driving. The man responded, “Why, do you have a gun?� Our CHL holder told him yes, he did. When the police arrived, the man told the officers that the CHL holder threatened him with his gun, at which time the officers arrested the CHL holder. How could he prove he did not threaten and how did the man know our CHL holder had a gun? That was the point I was trying to make. CHL holders should not be telling people they have a gun, this information could cause them some serious problems. The license was designed to have people carry to protect themselves or others, not to brag about the fact they have a gun…..understand my point?? At no time did I say it was unlawful to tell someone they are carrying……but, being “concealed� means no one knows you have it, right?[/i]

The CHL didn't tell him, he adjusted his shirt so the other person could 'see' it, then he asked the CHL why he had one...

The CHL in this instance was wrong, I agree.

But, according to this, the CHL didn't tell him he had a gun and she did say that "At no time did I say it was unlawful to tell someone that they're carrying".......

Being concealed means that it's not desernable (sp) by a reasonable by defination. (I don't have my book handy as I'm not at my normal desk right now.)

Having a DL doesn't mean you own or that you're driving a car.

Russ