Permission to search vehicle?

[Glockamolie]

Is there any kind of recourse for this behaviour? Do you have to have it on tape or anything? If so, I might start carrying a mini-cam.

I already do.

[rodc13]

Great discussion, folks! I really appreciate the thoughtfulness that everyone put into their responses. As I mentioned in the initial post, I had never really considered that specific circumstance.

[wrt45]

[quote="txinvestigator"]Not directed at anyone in particular, but in general, I am suspicious of folks who can cite numerous run-ins with the police where they did nothing wrong and the police were completely out of line.

Not to but I was there and it did happen to me. I left my office just after dark, headed south on the highway towards my home. About 2 miles down the road, I was pulled over by an officer who said he had clocked me at 70 in a 50mph zone about 1 mile NORTH of my office.....the opposite direction. When I attempted to explain that he must have the wrong vehicle (driving a maroon LTD.....must be a billion of them on the road) he told me to shut up. He was rude to my wife, who said nothing to him. He gave me the spiel about searching my car, was told no, and then gave me the line about "if you have nothing to hide...." He chose not to pursue the search.

He was new on the job in our community and I hadn't met him yet, so I asked him --trying to be polite -- how he was liking his new community. He told me to shut the *&^% up and informed me that he asked the questions, not me. After he gave me the ticket, I did ask him if he still felt the same way about answering my question. He informed me he was the police officer and he didn't have to answer to me. As I left, I couldn't resist saying to him, "Maybe your boss will feel differently about it when I talk to her." She did, and apparently I wasn't the only person he talked to in that manner. He was painting cars in a body shop soon afterward.

At the time, I was pastor of the largest church in the town. I had credibility that some of his "victims" didn't have, I'm sure.

In my 35 years as a pastor/retired pastor I've had three other equally distasteful encounters with LEOs who were out of line. This experience and one other involved a request to search, both of which were denied without further action. Thats not many, but its too many to dismiss as an aberation. Just my 2cents worth

[bauerdj]

I must admit that as a kid I did have one encounter with a LEO like that- A local sherrif in upstate NY stopped me for speeding. He had been going in the opposite direction and claimed he was able to judge (just by eye, NOT by radar) that I was going 35 in a 30 zone. He then kept pointing to a speed limit sign facing the direction HE had been going saying the speed limit was clearly posted. Being an 'all wise' 17 year old at the time I started to argue with him about how I couldn't read a sign facing the opposite direction. At least even then I was smart enough to be polite to him and called him "sir", etc. Finally let me go with a warning. I was very lucky; two years later he was convicted of planting evidence (marijuana) in a similar situation.

99% of LEOs are just trying to do their best to do a hard, dangerous job, but like any other segment their is the occasional one who is either overly impressed with his own authority or out and out dishonest.

Dave B.

[txinvestigator]

Not directed at anyone in particular, but in general, I am suspicious of folks who can cite numerous run-ins with the police where they did nothing wrong and the police were completely out of line.

Not to but I was there and it did happen to me. I left my office just after dark, headed south on the highway towards my home. About 2 miles down the road, I was pulled over by an officer who said he had clocked me at 70 in a 50mph zone about 1 mile NORTH of my office.....the opposite direction. When I attempted to explain that he must have the wrong vehicle (driving a maroon LTD.....must be a billion of them on the road) he told me to shut up. He was rude to my wife, who said nothing to him. He gave me the spiel about searching my car, was told no, and then gave me the line about "if you have nothing to hide...." He chose not to pursue the search.

He was new on the job in our community and I hadn't met him yet, so I asked him --trying to be polite -- how he was liking his new community. He told me to shut the *&^% up and informed me that he asked the questions, not me. After he gave me the ticket, I did ask him if he still felt the same way about answering my question. He informed me he was the police officer and he didn't have to answer to me. As I left, I couldn't resist saying to him, "Maybe your boss will feel differently about it when I talk to her." She did, and apparently I wasn't the only person he talked to in that manner. He was painting cars in a body shop soon afterward.

At the time, I was pastor of the largest church in the town. I had credibility that some of his "victims" didn't have, I'm sure.

In my 35 years as a pastor/retired pastor I've had three other equally distasteful encounters with LEOs who were out of line. This experience and one other involved a request to search, both of which were denied without further action. Thats not many, but its too many to dismiss as an aberation. Just my 2cents worth

That is one incident, not numerous times. I am glad you reported the behavior.

[IcheeWaWa]

Yeah, same thing happened to me. I was driving on I-10 towards Austin for the weekend. We were in my friend's VW bug and we had our bags in the back seat along with his climbing equipment (rock climber). I get stopped for rolling through a stop sign after getting gas, which I should admit was probably illegal, but at 2am who would have thought it would cause problems. Anyway, we consent to a search and the guy tears through our garment bags and climbing equipment and 15 minutes later gives me a warning for the stop sign and leaves us with 30 minutes of straightening up and repacking before we get back on the road. That kind of irritated me.

You must have been on the east side of Houston heading west when this happened. Out here, DPS runs drug interdiction more than traffic. My understanding is that they look for certain indicators...I have no idea what they are, but I'd be interested to know. I think the drugs go East and the ca$h goes West. Anyway, almost without exception, when DPS has someone pulled over on I-10 out here, the occupants are out of the vehicle and a search is being conducted.

[AV8R]

I rarely get pulled over while driving, but a pattern seems to be emerging in that the officers are generally polite when I am at fault, but tend to be obnoxious when I am not. It may be that the habitually-obnoxious ones have relaxed standards regarding probable cause. Case on point: a while back, returning from the Texas coast, I was stopped well past midnight, northwest of Sweetwater. The DPS officer was surly, claiming that an inoperative tail light triggered the stop. His behavior was unusual in that he apparently had no interest in writing a citation, only in searching the F-150 I was driving. I, of course, declined his offer, explaining that I already knew what was in the truck, and didn't need a cop to do an inventory for me. As I exited the vehicle to inspect the tail light in question, he went into the "what are you trying to hide" routine, trying to prevent me from examining the now-mysteriously-perfectly-operating lamp. Still, the trooper wouldn't give up, so I began to document the incident on the back of an envelope, he refusing to allow me to inspect his credentials in the process, to which I asked him to initial my journal entry "refused to produce identification upon my request." That was ok with me, since I was only doing this to get his goat anyway, despite my serious demeanor. Finally, I compromised with him, offering to stay with the vehicle while he sought to obtain a search warrant, which would have taken hours. After a fifteen-minute nap while the officer consulted with his handlers, I was released and on my way. He did ask, though, if I intended to write a formal complaint; I answered, "It depends."

Again relating to probable cause and rude behavior, a friend was flying from Dallas to New Orleans on Southwest a few years ago (before 9-11). From there, she would drive to Hattiesburg to visit family in a rental car.

As she kept a strenuous schedule and slept little, she welcomed the chance to snooze away the flight in comfort. Arriving in New Orleans, being the frugal woman she was, she price-shopped the line of car rental companies before finding a bargain and heading toward the door with her keys and carry-on. Before she made the exit, she was rudely restrained and surrounded by plain-clothes agents and a couple of airport cops. She was given the ultimatum that she could go with them to the security office for a search "the easy way or the hard way." Standing her ground while a crowd was gathering, she asked to see credentials. When one flashed his portfolio and immediately placed it back in his pocket, she had him retrieve it and hand it to her so she could inspect it in detail, taking her sweet time, followed by the rest of the now uneasy agents. She then demanded in a loud, clear voice, "I want you to tell me two things: I want to know precisely why you stopped me, and I want to know exactly what part of my behavior you consider to be unlawful." The lead guy fumbled something about being observed "nodding off" on the plane, being disoriented, having one piece of luggage, arriving without a car reservation, clearly hoping that something he was saying might improve their rapidly-deteriorating position. She, a diminuitive, distinguished-looking, and well-spoken lady, then announced to the officers and the now-large gathering of mostly-black spectators, in her best theatrical voice, "Well, I think you stopped me because I'm BLACK!" (applause) As she played to the admiring crowd, the agents rapidly did a disappearing act. The cops never had the chance to find out that she was a Dallas judge.

In Texas, the Fourth Amendment doesn't mean much. If you're pulled over, it doesn't mean anything unless you make your position clear.

[kauboy]

I seriously doubt that airport security would do such a thing simply because she was black. That was racial bait she was throwing out and it wasn't very professional. I don't appreciate these kinds of acts. If she was such a distinguished woman, she would have been able to diffuse the situation calmly and without accusing the agents of bigotry.

TX, what does the fish comment mean?

[skerbo]

Yeah, same thing happened to me. I was driving on I-10 towards Austin for the weekend. We were in my friend's VW bug and we had our bags in the back seat along with his climbing equipment (rock climber). I get stopped for rolling through a stop sign after getting gas, which I should admit was probably illegal, but at 2am who would have thought it would cause problems. Anyway, we consent to a search and the guy tears through our garment bags and climbing equipment and 15 minutes later gives me a warning for the stop sign and leaves us with 30 minutes of straightening up and repacking before we get back on the road. That kind of irritated me.

You must have been on the east side of Houston heading west when this happened. Out here, DPS runs drug interdiction more than traffic. My understanding is that they look for certain indicators...I have no idea what they are, but I'd be interested to know. I think the drugs go East and the ca$h goes West. Anyway, almost without exception, when DPS has someone pulled over on I-10 out here, the occupants are out of the vehicle and a search is being conducted.

This was about 10 years ago heading east in Sonora.

Also, I don't appreciate the insinuation that I was doing something wrong just because I was searched. I admitted to my stop sign infraction, but next time I will not consent to search. I learned my lesson. Never again.

[IcheeWaWa]

This was about 10 years ago heading east in Sonora.

Also, I don't appreciate the insinuation that I was doing something wrong just because I was searched. I admitted to my stop sign infraction, but next time I will not consent to search. I learned my lesson. Never again.

I didn't insinuate that you were doing anything wrong.

[revjen45]

"If you aren't up to something why do you object to search?"

If you aren't a witch why would you object if we look for the devil's mark?
If you aren't a witch then you won't proving if you can swim while you're tied up.
If you aren't a heretic you won't mind discussing theology with the Holy Inquisition.
Due process? It's all right here in the Malleus Maleficarum.

There's nothing I despise and resent more than snoopery, especially when someone wants to root and rifle through my belongings on a fishing trip. While I think most cops are honorable people I'm not willing to bet on having my life ruined by some Nazi oaf planting evidence. I don't have faith in a doctor just because he or she has a diploma or trust someone just because he or she has a badge. This is not intended as an offense to the police who honestly regard their job as keeping the peace rather than feeding the persecuting shysters office a steady stream of hapless peons.