Why do we patronize gun shows?

[Keith B]

I assume gun shops have liability insurance without 30.06 signs. I'm curious why insurance companies would see a gun show as so much of a higher risk that they wouldn't offer the same policy?

BTW, accepting these policies as a reality of insurance limitations is one thing. Supporting a policy like this at a gun show for safety reasons seems hypocritical to me for someone that advocates the exercise of gun rights in public. You support an irresponsible person's right to carry a gun in public, unless you have to be in the same convention hall with him? Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.

At any shop I have been to, if you are going to have your firearm out in the store, you are required to unload it an put it in a case before you enter. As for the range, they pay BIG $$$$ for liability and there are safety rules in play.

As for the previous post, I think the ND concern is the biggest reason they post 30.06. If they could guarantee that ALL CHL's would follow the rules and not try to remove their CCW while in the show, then the sign would not be there. Unfortunately all it takes is one bad apple and there have been ND's at several shows in the past. While they may not have been from a CHL, it more than likely prompts the 30.06 signage also.

[HGWC]

I assume gun shops have liability insurance without 30.06 signs. I'm curious why insurance companies would see a gun show as so much of a higher risk that they wouldn't offer the same policy?

BTW, accepting these policies as a reality of insurance limitations is one thing. Supporting a policy like this at a gun show for safety reasons seems hypocritical to me for someone that advocates the exercise of gun rights in public. You support an irresponsible person's right to carry a gun in public, unless you have to be in the same convention hall with him? Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.

At any shop I have been to, if you are going to have your firearm out in the store, you are required to unload it an put it in a case before you enter. As for the range, they pay BIG $$$$ for liability and there are safety rules in play.

As for the previous post, I think the ND concern is the biggest reason they post 30.06. If they could guarantee that ALL CHL's would follow the rules and not try to remove their CCW while in the show, then the sign would not be there. Unfortunately all it takes is one bad apple and there have been ND's at several shows in the past. While they may not have been from a CHL, it more than likely prompts the 30.06 signage also.

I think the difference is a safety policy on handling of weapons as compared to a legal policy on banning weapons. One respects the rights of customers. One shows a disrespect for their customers and a hypocrisy in their business policy. "I'm concerned you may have a ND accident with this firearm, but I'll be happy to sell it to you, no questions asked, as long as you don't have one here in my shop?" It may be a necessary evil, but you have to admit there's an element of hypocrisy here.

[Embalmo]

Guys,

So if a 30.06 sign at a gun show is a good idea where NDs can occur, perhaps we should ask shop keepers to post them everywhere to maximize the safety of everyone. I think what has happened at gun shows is that the laws haven't been enforced to the point where bone-head CHLs have come to believe they're at a gun party with all their friends. I bought a gun at the Saxet gun show and while looking for a Ruger P90, a CHL next to me pulled his out and handed it to me. I didn't have a CHL at the time, so I thought it was legal.

I think big signs, dealers who demand compliance, and LEOs who enforce the rules would fix the problem. I personally haven't seen an application yet where a 30.06 has made anyone safer.

Embalmo

[Keith B]

I think the difference is a safety policy on handling of weapons as compared to a legal policy on banning weapons. One respects the rights of customers. One shows a disrespect for their customers and a hypocrisy in their business policy. "I'm concerned you may have a ND accident with this firearm, but I'll be happy to sell it to you, no questions asked, as long as you don't have one here in my shop?" It may be a necessary evil, but you have to admit there's an element of hypocrisy here.

I don't think they really worry about disrespecting the attendees and take the easiest path to accomplishing their goal. I haven't seen a noticble decline in attendance due to 30.06 and having to zip-tie your guns. Seems most folks (including me) are willing to go even though we may not like it. Unfortunately there are not any other venues to go to that are not posted, so you bite your lip, disarm and go in to drool over the stuff.

[Embalmo]

Guys,

I guess the reason I get angry when I see a 30.06 is that I immediately think about the safety of my family and I think, "My wife can't protect herself and we cannot protect our 8 year old son from murderers, rapist, kidnappers, etc.?" And that makes me boil in anger!

Embalmo

[fickman]

Guys,

So if a 30.06 sign at a gun show is a good idea where NDs can occur, perhaps we should ask shop keepers to post them everywhere to maximize the safety of everyone. I think what has happened at gun shows is that the laws haven't been enforced to the point where bone-head CHLs have come to believe they're at a gun party with all their friends. I bought a gun at the Saxet gun show and while looking for a Ruger P90, a CHL next to me pulled his out and handed it to me. I didn't have a CHL at the time, so I thought it was legal.

I think big signs, dealers who demand compliance, and LEOs who enforce the rules would fix the problem. I personally haven't seen an application yet where a 30.06 has made anyone safer.

Embalmo

I agree. Have LEOs standing by to give citations, cuff, or suspend licenses for anybody who intentionally fails to conceal. Word will get around and the "bad apples" will get weeded out. If people don't have enough common sense to properly carry concealed at the gun show, then they shouldn't be carrying anywhere. . . or there's a major gap in the "education" we're supposed to be receiving during the course.

[Keith B]

I agree. Have LEOs standing by to give citations, cuff, or suspend licenses for anybody who intentionally fails to conceal. Word will get around and the "bad apples" will get weeded out. If people don't have enough common sense to properly carry concealed at the gun show, then they shouldn't be carrying anywhere. . . or there's a major gap in the "education" we're supposed to be receiving during the course.

Gonna play devil's advocate here for a minute. If they have to add extra personnel, then they have to raise the price or admission, or the price for vendors per table. And while having LEO's standing around waiting to pounce would deter some folks, the ones that probably wouldn't do it anyway are not going to be affected. It will also make folks leery of accidentally exposing their guns if 'they are watching for you to unconceal' as the line might get blurry between accidental and intentional.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of the 30.06 either, but as I said before, I think the shows take the easy way out and use it to keep anyone from carrying in. It is the typical 'all or nothing' mentality and you have to work to the weakest link. And I think I have seen several 'missing links' at the shows in the past.

[Embalmo]

Guys,

Of course there are going to be gaps in the training, and that is true with any sort of training. I've managed to fill in a lot of gaps with this forum, the DPS site, and through asking more experienced friends. There is no excuse in not knowing what the laws are; it a gun in your pocket! I personally would LOVE any opportunity for bone-CHLs to get weeded out!

Embalmo

[Keith B]

Guys,

Of course there are going to be gaps in the training, and that is true with any sort of training. I've managed to fill in a lot of gaps with this forum, the DPS site, and through asking more experienced friends. There is no excuse in not knowing what the laws are; it a gun in your pocket! I personally would LOVE any opportunity for bone-CHLs to get weeded out!

Embalmo

But wait, doesn't 'weeding out' constitute restriction and go against the 2nd amendment?? We unfortunately can't have it both ways.

[Mike1951]

I agree. Have LEOs standing by to give citations, cuff, or suspend licenses for anybody who intentionally fails to conceal. Word will get around and the "bad apples" will get weeded out. If people don't have enough common sense to properly carry concealed at the gun show, then they shouldn't be carrying anywhere. . . or there's a major gap in the "education" we're supposed to be receiving during the course.

Yes, and they should also arrest everyone carrying a handgun around inside the show, since that is also illegal.

[jmramiller]

I thought 30.06 didn't apply in government buildings.

Best I can tell all the venues around dallas are privately owned:

Big Town appears to be owned by Kimco Realty Corp. "Amon G Carter Jr Exhibits Hall is a private company " (quote from Manta). Resistol Arena is privately owned by Camelot, and as someone else has already stated, Dallas Market Hall is also privately owned.

[HGWC]

I agree. Have LEOs standing by to give citations, cuff, or suspend licenses for anybody who intentionally fails to conceal. Word will get around and the "bad apples" will get weeded out. If people don't have enough common sense to properly carry concealed at the gun show, then they shouldn't be carrying anywhere. . . or there's a major gap in the "education" we're supposed to be receiving during the course.

Yes, and they should also arrest everyone carrying a handgun around inside the show, since that is also illegal.

I was thinking about that too. The 30.06 sign doesn't even apply to non-chl holders or those carrying long guns. I got to looking at the laws, and 46.02 says you can't carry a handgun except basically at your home or to and from your car, but that's not the whole story. In 46.15, we have the traveling, hunting, fishing, sporting event, and other exceptions to 46.02. Plus, how can you possess a handgun in your home or car if you can't have dealers transport a handgun for sale and buyers carrying a purchased handgun home? There doesn't seem to be any specific exceptions to 46.02 to cover any of that. Anyone care to clear up the legality of gun shows at all? Is the carrying of handguns for sale and maintenance covered under 46.15 and sporting events? Is there any other set of laws that are exceptions to 46.02 for transporting to from gun shows, buying, selling, and handling at gun shows?

Also, if anyone can carry a handgun without the authority of the CHL law, are you carrying a handgun under that authority if you have the CHL? I think that's an interesting question. If you're carrying a handgun for a purpose that's unrestricted by the legislature, you're carrying under the authority of your intrinsic rights guaranteed in the state constitution. I would think that authority trumps any authority "granted" by the legislature. If you're carrying under that right, I also don't see any laws that, outside of your car, restrict you from carrying the handgun concealed or openly. So, if this line of thinking is correct, and you're not carrying under the authority of the CHL, the 30.06 law doesn't apply to anyone going into a gun show.

Seems to me we have a lot of folks prescribing illegality to what is an unrestricted right for both handguns and long guns. They could ask you to leave, or refuse you entry, but I doubt there's anything illegal about carrying handguns into a gun show loaded or unloaded concealed or carried openly. Maybe I'll learn something after this post.

[Embalmo]

Guys,

Of course there are going to be gaps in the training, and that is true with any sort of training. I've managed to fill in a lot of gaps with this forum, the DPS site, and through asking more experienced friends. There is no excuse in not knowing what the laws are; it a gun in your pocket! I personally would LOVE any opportunity for bone-CHLs to get weeded out!

Embalmo

But wait, doesn't 'weeding out' constitute restriction and go against the 2nd amendment?? We unfortunately can't have it both ways.

My personal definition of a bone-head CHL is someone who handles a gun so foolishly that he is a danger to himself, others, and the entire CHL movement.

Weeding out such bone-heads is just as unconstitutional as the CHL movement itself. Up 'till now I hadn't considered scrapping all gun control, including the criminal background checks that go with it. Hmm. I wonder what would happen if criminals could buy guns at Academy, and the 2nd amendment served as the only true, legal CHL. This nation's crime level would be either the same, better, or worse; my guess is that it would be the same.

Embalmo

[chabouk]

I don't keep a log of NDs at gun shows, but most of them get reported in the various gun forums. With a couple of rare exceptions, like the guy checking holster fit on his loaded carry pistol, almost all of the guilty parties are the dealers themselves.

[ricor]

I like gun shows, yes it is difficult to have to disarm. I understand why insurance underwriters would request a posting of the appropriate signage. I know we have to go through plenty of back ground checks to carry but I think it's more than that. When I went through my CHL class I saw many law abiding and well intentioned don't truly have the skills and discipline to be responsible in all situations.