Bank Robbery @ Kroger store

[Excaliber]

74novaman said:
Take the example of the Marine in the Subway sandwich shop (can't remember where or when). Robbers came in, brandishing guns. Demanded money. He gave them his wallet. When they took him back to the bathroom and got him on his knees execution style, the situation had changed, and he engaged them.

IIRC, this incident happened in Florida and this older Marine
was carrying a 1911 in .45.

Anyone who has a better recall than I is hereby empowered to correct this.

SIA

Mas Ayoob's account of the incident in question can be found here. It's an excellent example of continuous reassessment of risk during an unexpected really bad incident, and decisive action when the risk of failing to act exceeds the high risks involved in using deadly force to protect innocent life.

[74novaman]

Mas Ayoob's account of the incident in question can be found here. It's an excellent example of continuous reassessment of risk during an unexpected really bad incident, and decisive action when the risk of failing to act exceeds the high risks involved in using deadly force to protect innocent life.

Bingo. Which is why I used it as an example. I only hope I would keep such a cool head under such circumstances.

[Excaliber]

Mas Ayoob's account of the incident in question can be found here. It's an excellent example of continuous reassessment of risk during an unexpected really bad incident, and decisive action when the risk of failing to act exceeds the high risks involved in using deadly force to protect innocent life.

Bingo. Which is why I used it as an example. I only hope I would keep such a cool head under such circumstances.

The account of this incident is also a great reminder of the importance of a good holster, belt, and magazine carrier.

Having to drop your drawers like the hero of the above story to get to a reload is something I don't recommend. He clearly didn't enjoy the experience either, but survived anyway because he ran out of attackers before he needed to fire again.

Cheap holsters, belts, and mag carriers are really the most expensive when you need them most - they can cost you your life.

[DoubleActionCHL]

Wow! I'm a bit late in entering this discourse but... WOW! Slice? If you were serious, your comments were scary.

The first thing you do is draw your line in the sand. Before you're faced with this scenario, you need to have established your boundaries; the criteria which will invoke your use of deadly force. Then you assess and act. What is act? "Act" may mean take cover an assess some more. Determine if you or your family is endangered directly. "Act" may mean engage the assailant, if that's where you've drawn your line.

Human beings tend to be emotional. A man might irrationally rush to the rescue of a woman in peril, where a man in the same circumstances would not illicit a similar response. This is where we must detach, assess, act, assess (rinse and repeat). Easier said than done, I know.

Have a plan. Execute your plan.

Remember that you're responsible for EVERY round you fire, and the DOJ says you'll miss 4 out of 5 shots (based on their assessment of police officers hitting their target 18% of the time). Where are those errant rounds going? Do they have "reckless" attached to them? If you recklessly kill or injure an innocent third party while trying to be the hero, can you live with the consequences?

End of rant...

[74novaman]

Remember that you're responsible for EVERY round you fire, and the DOJ says you'll miss 4 out of 5 shots (based on their assessment of police officers hitting their target 18% of the time).

And here I go off topic....

I know I put more rounds downrange than most police officers do, because its something I enjoy doing. I feel I'm a pretty darn good shot. I haven't been in a defensive shooting, but I know plenty in the local PDs that ONLY shoot their service weapon once a year for quals. Are they the majority? Probably not. But you can beat they're throwing the curve for the rest of them.

[DoubleActionCHL]

Remember that you're responsible for EVERY round you fire, and the DOJ says you'll miss 4 out of 5 shots (based on their assessment of police officers hitting their target 18% of the time).

And here I go off topic....

I know I put more rounds downrange than most police officers do, because its something I enjoy doing. I feel I'm a pretty darn good shot. I haven't been in a defensive shooting, but I know plenty in the local PDs that ONLY shoot their service weapon once a year for quals. Are they the majority? Probably not. But you can beat they're throwing the curve for the rest of them.

I'd like to think that I'll perform better than average, but I'll never know until I find myself in that situation. I hope I never have to find out.

[bdickens]

If you inadvertantly kill or injure an innocent third party while defending yourself or others, it is the criminal actor who is responsible, not you. Legally and morally.

[DoubleActionCHL]

If you inadvertantly kill or injure an innocent third party while defending yourself or others, it is the criminal actor who is responsible, not you. Legally and morally.

That statement was made in the context of "recklessness." If your actions resulting in the death or serious injury of an innocent third party are considered reckless, it is likely that you will not enjoy "justification" for your actions, meaning you'll likely be prosecuted criminally . And then there's the potential civil liability.