Disclosure of concealed handgun

[flintknapper]

Okay, thank you for clearing that up.


Like I mentioned above in my earlier post I came to the same conclusion you did, that intentional verbal disclosure is probably prohibited.

No way.

Texas Government Code



Text
§411.171. Definitions.

In this subchapter:

(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of
which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a
reasonable person.


If I go to Kroger and see my buddy and he asked if I am carrying and I reply yes, I did not intentionally fail to conceal it. This seems real simple to me.

Course I am kinda simple minded.

My point of view (equally simple minded) , is that you are correct.

I can't help but think the wording used in §411.171. was intended to imply a "physical" concealment. Otherwise, every time LE asked for your DL (while carrying) and you (also) produced your CHL, you would technically be in violation.

Similarly, any circumstance that allowed your CHL to be viewed by another.. could reasonably cause an apprehension that you were carrying even if you didn't verbally say so. Surely, this is not the spirit in which the law was written.

A person may SAY anything. Whether or not you have any reason to believe them...is largely a matter of circumstance, empirical evidence, and that persons integrity (if it be known). How could all this be judged quickly in the field?

Until I see convincing argument to the contrary, I'm going with physical concealment as the true intent of the law.

Just my .02 (and you know how I hate to agree with TXI).

[nitrogen]

I think common sense really should rule over anything.

Think about what the spirit of the law is to not cause "panic" among the sheeple. Basically, to keep people from just showing their weapons in order to cause fear in people. (i.e. at a traffic accident, going, "I think you should just let me go" and showing your gun) I wouldn't talk about my gun in such a way that would cause apprehension or fear in anyone. In the above example, I wouldn't say, "I think you should let me go, as I have a gun". I think that'd be not only unnecessary, but would be against the law (for more reasons than a possible violation of PC §46.035!)

Another example: I'm talking with some coworkers from out of town, and the topic comes up to Texas's concealed handgun laws. One of them asks, "Are you carrying right now?" And I answer yes. They don't believe me, so I show them. (We're

Technically, was that a violation of PC §46.035? Yes. In spirit? I don't think so, as it's not hurting anyone.

I wouldn't worry about verbal disclosure as long as it's not done in such a way to influence a situation in some way (that would also be illegal!)

[txinvestigator]

[quote="nitrogen"]
Another example: I'm talking with some coworkers from out of town, and the topic comes up to Texas's concealed handgun laws. One of them asks, "Are you carrying right now?" And I answer yes. They don't believe me, so I show them. (We're

quote]

Great point. I have a buddy who is with the FBI and assigned to New York, and resides in New Jersey. He married a dear friend of my wife and mine. They have stayed with us on many occasions, but when I first met him the conversation was interesting.

They had setteled into the guest room, and I decided to walk the dog and he wanted to go along so we could visit some. He grabbed his pistol and strapped it on, and out we went.

One the street I asked him what he carried. (S&W 10mm semi) He asked about Texas' famous CHL law, and of course, asked my what I carried (beretta 92FS at that time).

How was that a violation?

[AV8R]

[/quote]

How was that a violation?[/quote]

Sure sounds ok to me.. I think it would be pretty tough even for a Texas prosecutor to convict someone for having an unlawful conversation based on hearsay evidence. Might want to ask Tom Delay just to be sure, though.

[Flatland2D]

Sorry to bring up this aging topic - it's been a while since I've been around. This story immediately came to mind while reading this thread. Even though the situation is different and a threat is involved, a man was supposedly arrested for telling someone he had a gun. This isn't first hand, so interpret how you like. I'm interested to hear what those more knowledgable think of this. I personally would lie to everyone except my parents, wife, and her parents.

One other anecdote from a former student. He( 58 YO white male) , the wife , kid and grandkids went to a high school football playoff game. Their team won. When they were exiting the parking lot, logjam ensued. A car full of the other teams supporters wanted to get in front of our CHL. He would not let them in. They cursed the CHL, spit at him, and finally got out and kicked his front quarterpanel. They other party then challenged the CHL to "get out be a man, show what a tough guy you are ."
The CHL lasted with about ten minutes of good Verbal Judo, not taking the bait then finally when the other driver got right up to his window and said he wanted him to get out, our CHL said, "Nope, this is a fight you can't win. " I know you can kick my *** but I not going to let it get that far. You'll have a bullet hole in you before that happens." The other driver asked if he had a gun. The CHL nodded affirmative. And then the problems began. Several bystanders and fans of the losing team, all called the police. The police arrived and ended up arrestting the CHL for failure to conceal. They said that his acknowledgement that he had a gun constituted an intentional failure to conceal violation. He was arrested.
$11,000 later the charges were dropped and he is asking for an expungement. He still does not have his handgun back. The ADA (the CHL says she is a little ***** with a bad anti-gun attitude) told him that if he continues trying to get his gun back, she will file Disorderly Conduct charges on him.

The original post started here: http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... highlight=

[KBCraig]

Sorry to bring up this aging topic - it's been a while since I've been around.

Welcome back, and thanks for resurrecting a good question!

I certainly don't know the players involved, but the original poster you quoted still hangs around. He most recently posted on 6/7/06. Hopefully, he'll respond with the details you're seeking.

Kevin

[Piney]

Greetings--

After reading through this and related threads-- It appears to me that simply telling someone that you are carrying a concealed handgun would not be prohibited. Of course-- its not going to be that simple in court *sigh*

However, telling someone that you are carrying a concealed handgun AND issuing some form of threat ( I'm carrying a gun and you'll get hurt or something similar) in a situation that's not life-threatening could be considered "verbal brandishing". IMO, that would be akin to raising one's shirt and showing the handgun (brandishing).

Myself-- I always answer NO to that question, unless it was a very good friend or relative (who BTW don't know that I am carrying). Basically, its no one's business.....concealed means concealed eh ....

[Rich]

I was asked the other day by a fellow employee what's in the bag…are you packing? I stated..."I was carrying medicine."

[KBCraig]

I was asked the other day by a fellow employee what's in the bag…are you packing? I stated..."I was carrying medicine."

Lead pills.

[Braden]

It's not illegal to tell someone that you are carrying, but in my opinion it's also not a very good idea. Unless there is some reason they NEED to know then I wouldn't volunteer that information. I've only had one person ever ask me if I was carrying. At the time I wasn't so I just said no. If I were then I'd try to think of some humorous way to dodge the question just so I don't have to lie about it.

[Rich]

Good thing I had medicine in the bag.

[lrb111]

It's not illegal to tell someone that you are carrying, but in my opinion it's also not a very good idea. Unless there is some reason they NEED to know then I wouldn't volunteer that information. I've only had one person ever ask me if I was carrying. At the time I wasn't so I just said no. If I were then I'd try to think of some humorous way to dodge the question just so I don't have to lie about it.

I amuse easily sometimes. I tell the fellow I work with the question of "Are you carrying." is the wrong question. The right question is "How many", and laugh it off.

[cyphur]

I see no reason to have to answer the question "Are you armed/carrying?" but dodging it or refusing to answer can lend much suspicion. I'll lie about it if I have no - no compunction with that.