Five Kids "Try to Rob me" in my own driveway

[longtooth]

Good post DaveT. Man we Welocme you back. Hope you are showing good improvement. Just seeing you bbck on the board is encouraging. Give us an update on progress.

[ElGato]

There seems to be a developing trend on this board for personal attacks when someone disagrees with the opinion or post of another. I made a decision not to post on another gun board for that very reason, when I started here I had the impression that this board was above that.......

My thought's, I just hadn't decided when or how I was going to say it.

It's called the Parent Ego state.

Thank's DaveT

[Charles L. Cotton]

There seems to be a developing trend on this board for personal attacks when someone disagrees with the opinion or post of another. I made a decision not to post on another gun board for that very reason, when I started here I had the impression that this board was above that.......

My thought's, I just hadn't decided when or how I was going to say it.

It's called the Parent Ego state.

Thank's DaveT

Yes, this is a growing problem. I've received several emails and/or PM's from people on this subject. Many have said they don't post any longer, while others have said they don't even come to TexasCHLforum because of the growing number of personal attacks. Posts containing personal attacks still constitute a very small percentage of total posts, but they are growing in number and this is worrisome. Most Internet boards on any subject don’t go from useful discussion among members to posts laden with personal attacks over night. Most do so gradually, at least that has been my experience. I will not let that happen to TexasCHLforum, although I owe all of you an apology for letting it get this far.

Boma’s post about an attempted robbery by five “children� lead by an armed girl had the potential of generating an excellent discussion about a nightmare scenario any of us could face. It was a real-world account of a concept taught in all good tactical schools - “What Will Your Attacker Look Like?� We all could have learned something from this, and done some soul searching in the process. But look what happened. Someone inquired, not once but twice, why the would-be hijackers’ race was mentioned and the thread quickly became a pro/con on whether a criminal’s race is relevant or even should be mentioned. There was nothing in BOMA’s description of the event that gave even the hint of racism. If it had included something to the effect of “of course they were black, what else would you expect?� then I’d have been all over it in a heartbeat, but that’s not remotely close to what happened.

Take a quick look at the posts on that thread. See how many are related to the subject matter and how many are related to inclusion of the color of the hijackers and this occurred after I deleted three posts that dealt with race! To those whose responsive posts were deleted, please don’t take offense to their deletion. I had hoped to diffuse the issue and return the discussion to the topic of the post, but my efforts obviously failed.

Someone commented in a recent thread that it’s hard to read tone in a post. I wholeheartedly agree! It’s also hard to read motive, intent, demeanor, or any number of human emotions that may or may not be present in a person’s mind when a post is being written. We have a great group of members at TexasCHLforum so, based upon our 20 months of experience here, let’s give others the benefit of the doubt when it comes to imputing ill-intent. How often in life have each of us had an argument with a friend or family member, only to learn that they didn’t mean what we thought meant? How much easier can that happen when the only communication is printed word?

Let me say this to those who posted on the race/color issue. None of my comments should be taken as any criticism of you or the views you expressed. My concern is purely with the phenomenon we are seeing and the damage it can cause.

However, misinterpretation of someone meaning or intent isn’t the only problem brewing. In fact, it seems to be far more common that some people go on the attack when they see an opinion expressed that they don’t like. It’s also obvious that when certain posters post on a thread, you know sparks are far more likely to fly, regardless of the subject matter.

Although the Mission Statement warns that personal attacks will not be tolerated, the actual enforcement of that rule has been lacking in recent months and that’s purely my fault. That will change today. Not even my best friend will be above this rule. Some time ago, I spoke with specific people about becoming moderators. I’m going to talk to them again and enlist their help in moderating TexasCHLforum. The character of these men is above reproach and I’m sure you will agree when they assume their duties. I plan to have a private Moderator’s Forum where the moderators can discuss forum matters including problems. Before any action is taken toward a member, every moderator will be asked to review the posts at issue and give their opinion as to what should be done. No member will be banned without a majority of moderators feeling such action is appropriate. Each moderator will serve for a 6 month or 1 year term and we will rotate new people into the moderator positions. This will keep anyone from getting burned out and it will also help serve to bring new ideas and fresh perspectives to the moderating function. Whoever serves as moderators, the philosophy of TexasCHLforum will remain the same. Moderation will be kept to an absolute minimum with action being taken only when absolutely necessary. To do otherwise would likely change the atmosphere we enjoy at TexasCHLforum.

In closing let me make sure to clarify a point. I am talking only about stopping personal attacks, not quelling legitimate discussions. Most issues don’t really generate much emotion, but some do. As long as an emotional discussion doesn’t rise to the level of a personal attack or violation of the 10 year old daughter rule, then there is no problem.

Regards,
Chas.

[nitrogen]

My verbal response would have been, "That's not my car."

Throw a wrench into their plans. Not your car, so you don't have the keys.

"Hey mister, does your dog bite?"
"Nope."
*snap*
"I thought you said your dog doesn't bite!"
"That ain't my dog."

Kevin

That is a *GREAT* response.
I will have to remember that one. I will have to practice saying it with a straight face, especially when getting into, and out of a car.

"Gimme your car."
"it's not me car, i'm just stealing it with more class."

[D.D.M.]

I say sure here ya go and throw em the keys and stand a better chance of walking away alive.To get shot/killed over a car or some insignificant piece of property is stupid IMO.

[KinnyLee]

Yes, this is a growing problem. I've received several emails and/or PM's from people on this subject. Many have said they don't post any longer, while others have said they don't even come to TexasCHLforum because of the growing number of personal attacks. Posts containing personal attacks still constitute a very small percentage of total posts, but they are growing in number and this is worrisome. Most Internet boards on any subject don’t go from useful discussion among members to posts laden with personal attacks over night. Most do so gradually, at least that has been my experience. I will not let that happen to TexasCHLforum, although I owe all of you an apology for letting it get this far.

Boma’s post about an attempted robbery by five “children� lead by an armed girl had the potential of generating an excellent discussion about a nightmare scenario any of us could face. It was a real-world account of a concept taught in all good tactical schools - “What Will Your Attacker Look Like?� We all could have learned something from this, and done some soul searching in the process. But look what happened. Someone inquired, not once but twice, why the would-be hijackers’ race was mentioned and the thread quickly became a pro/con on whether a criminal’s race is relevant or even should be mentioned. There was nothing in BOMA’s description of the event that gave even the hint of racism. If it had included something to the effect of “of course they were black, what else would you expect?� then I’d have been all over it in a heartbeat, but that’s not remotely close to what happened.

Take a quick look at the posts on that thread. See how many are related to the subject matter and how many are related to inclusion of the color of the hijackers and this occurred after I deleted three posts that dealt with race! To those whose responsive posts were deleted, please don’t take offense to their deletion. I had hoped to diffuse the issue and return the discussion to the topic of the post, but my efforts obviously failed.

Someone commented in a recent thread that it’s hard to read tone in a post. I wholeheartedly agree! It’s also hard to read motive, intent, demeanor, or any number of human emotions that may or may not be present in a person’s mind when a post is being written. We have a great group of members at TexasCHLforum so, based upon our 20 months of experience here, let’s give others the benefit of the doubt when it comes to imputing ill-intent. How often in life have each of us had an argument with a friend or family member, only to learn that they didn’t mean what we thought meant? How much easier can that happen when the only communication is printed word?

Let me say this to those who posted on the race/color issue. None of my comments should be taken as any criticism of you or the views you expressed. My concern is purely with the phenomenon we are seeing and the damage it can cause.

However, misinterpretation of someone meaning or intent isn’t the only problem brewing. In fact, it seems to be far more common that some people go on the attack when they see an opinion expressed that they don’t like. It’s also obvious that when certain posters post on a thread, you know sparks are far more likely to fly, regardless of the subject matter.

Although the Mission Statement warns that personal attacks will not be tolerated, the actual enforcement of that rule has been lacking in recent months and that’s purely my fault. That will change today. Not even my best friend will be above this rule. Some time ago, I spoke with specific people about becoming moderators. I’m going to talk to them again and enlist their help in moderating TexasCHLforum. The character of these men is above reproach and I’m sure you will agree when they assume their duties. I plan to have a private Moderator’s Forum where the moderators can discuss forum matters including problems. Before any action is taken toward a member, every moderator will be asked to review the posts at issue and give their opinion as to what should be done. No member will be banned without a majority of moderators feeling such action is appropriate. Each moderator will serve for a 6 month or 1 year term and we will rotate new people into the moderator positions. This will keep anyone from getting burned out and it will also help serve to bring new ideas and fresh perspectives to the moderating function. Whoever serves as moderators, the philosophy of TexasCHLforum will remain the same. Moderation will be kept to an absolute minimum with action being taken only when absolutely necessary. To do otherwise would likely change the atmosphere we enjoy at TexasCHLforum.

In closing let me make sure to clarify a point. I am talking only about stopping personal attacks, not quelling legitimate discussions. Most issues don’t really generate much emotion, but some do. As long as an emotional discussion doesn’t rise to the level of a personal attack or violation of the 10 year old daughter rule, then there is no problem.

Regards,
Chas.

And this is why I stopped responding to this thread. I didn't see the need to esculate this thread into any drama causing argument. This is also why I've stopped posted in quite a few forums. I think I can speak for most of us here that Charles is doing an outstanding job. You're only human and can only do so much. You have a life and a full time job so it is very understandable. I, at least, appreciate you for setting up this place for us to hang out and soak up information. I would have never got into reloading my ammo if not for this place. This place has a lot of good people, and they are willing to help when needed. And I think selecting other moderators to moderate the forum is a great idea. You're doing an awesome job. And I'll promise to be good. I don't need to be getting banned from the only place I spend a good amount of time on.

[seamusTX]

I say sure here ya go and throw em the keys and stand a better chance of walking away alive.

This would be an acceptable solution. However, many bad guys want to kidnap the car owner, especially if a woman (for obvious if ugly reasons), and even men, to force them to withdraw cash from ATMs.

- Jim

[DaveT]

Good post DaveT. Man we Welocme you back. Hope you are showing good improvement. Just seeing you bbck on the board is encouraging. Give us an update on progress.

longtooth,

Thanks for asking, the end is near.......
Only 3 more radiation treatments to go, 37 down.
Been rough, lots of not so nice side effects. Won't
know the results for another 30 days when the next
PET scan is run. If the test is clear, I'm good to go
for 6 months until the next test, if not.... chemo will
start pretty quick.


Charles,

Thanks for your response and for all you do with this discussion board.

[Boma]

Thanks for all the positive responses. I've been noticing a lot of attacks too, especially on xdtalk.com. Glad to see you're doing ok DaveT, I'm a young guy and hope I never have to go through what you're going through.

You guys' responses have made me realize how deadly serious that situation was. The whole incident took about 20 seconds.

[Venus Pax]

Dave T, you're moving along. I'm glad to hear you're almost done with that treatment. I hope to see you at the CHL day at PSC, along with most others here.

As for the situation, it's a shame we have to deal with children weilding weapons at us. It really puts one in a tough situation.
I made a decision long ago that I would shoot anyone pointing a gun or a knife at me intent on harm. I don't care if my attacker is 10 or 100, if you're attacking me or a relative, you're fishing for trouble.
There are many, however, that disagree with me.
When at my CHL class, I brought up a teacher I worked with whose dog was killed in its own back yard by a student getting revenge. When I brought up that if I were home, I would have defended my dog, my CHL instructor said, "Venus, you wouldn't shoot a kid, now would you?"
(For the record, my colleage wasn't home when her dog was killed.)

No, I'm not going out looking for children to kill. I have NO DESIRE to kill anyone. In fact, I do everything in my power to teach my own students to be good citizens. Although I know its against the law, I even invite the Holy Spirit (gasp!) into my classroom to help us all. (We even have a special chair that we call "God's chair". )
But when an individual starts his or her criminal career early in life, what choice are they leaving their victims? Are we supposed to just lay back and let them kill us simply because we're older?
Yet, I also realize, that had the OP shot one of those children, life as he knew it would have been over. It wouldn't matter the color of the child or the gun--shooting a child, regardless of the situation, would bring horrible consequences.

[cyphur]

When preparing to deploy to Iraq(which never happened for me) we all tried to mentally harden ourselves for expected combat against what we would think of as children. Our CoC drilled into us, anyone that points a gun at you and seems to have a whisp of intent, drop 'em like a hot rock.

I realize I'm not in the streets of Bagdad or in a alleyway in Fallujah, but I'm still of the opinion that if someone points a gun in anger at me, they will get fired upon. The gun they hold doesn't care how old they are - if they pull the trigger, it will go bang all the same. They've already chosen to take that path, and put themselves in that position. I figure, if you're old enough to make your own conscious decisions - and hence old enough to deal with the consequences of said decisions.

[Paladin]

I say sure here ya go and throw em the keys and stand a better chance of walking away alive.To get shot/killed over a car or some insignificant piece of property is stupid IMO.

Its your car. You are free do what you want. But you should consider that they might just hurt/kill you after they get what they want. Every situation is different, but the stats I've seen say that, in general, resisting with a gun gives you better odds than giving the BGs what they want. You are more likely to come out of it okay, and the BGs are less likely to get what they want.

If you're unarmed, it may be a different story.

Whatever you do(armed or unarmed), don't let them kidnap you.

[Boma]

The thought of throwing my keys to them didn't occur to me, because I didn't realize how serious the situation was. To me it looked like they were trying to bully me for fun versus actually robbing me. But a cop in my situation would have shot them for sure...

I'm glad I didn't have a gun at the time, because if I shot them I could only imagine the hell that would come at me in the form of their family members and friends. I'm not rich enough to move away yet, but I will it won't be much longer. I'm finishing my school this semester and I'll be able to work a full time job.

[RioShooter]

I'm happy to see this thread return to the topic, and get off the PC debate.
I always carry at home; inside and outside.

For some reason I've never forgotton this incident. In Indianapolis at least 15 years ago, a man was cleaning the gutters on his house. A group of teenagers walked-up his drive way and demanded money. He refused. One of the teenagers shot him off the ladder. He died on the spot. They took his wallet before they left.

[Boma]

Man, that is some cold-blooded stuff. They built a gas station/convenience store on my street so that was what increased the walking activity by my house.