Finally, a CHLer is portrayed as the victim

[Oldgringo]

ridiculously stupid behavior

Give me a break. I'm new to this forum, can someone let me know if everyone is this judgmental and paranoid?

Nice start with your first post. We're anxiously awaiting the eloquence of your thoughts on subsequent subjects.

[Embalmo]

Not once have the victims been blamed for the crime on this thread. The victims have been, however, blamed for, and are guilty of, choosing to engage in irresponsible risky behavior.

So I guess all those idiots who drive during rush hour are just begging to die in wrecks. Not to mention the ones who leave their homes unoccupied during the day; they must want to be victims of burglars.

I think what you're missing here is that that driving during rush hour and leaving one's house is not a foolish, unnecessary act. Would you be comfortable with your wife, girlfriend, daughter, sister, mother behaving as these women did? This is about taking responsibility for one's own actions and blaming no one else for one's consequences. As I mentioned before, personal responsibility is a bedrock principle of concealed carry.

Embalmo

[Oldgringo]

At long last, the "R" word has come into play. By defintion, "victim" and "deserve" are mutually exclusive terms.

OTOH, we will all be held "accountable" for our actions - sooner or later. That "accountability" may not be fun and there is no one else to blame for our actions other than ourselves. It is our "responsibilty" to use good judgement and situational awareness at all times and in all places.

Here endeth the lesson, I am .

[Abraham]

"Would you be comfortable with your wife, girlfriend, daughter, sister, mother
behaving as these women did?"

Wow!

Worded like a disapproving Mullah.

"behaving" is a rather revealing word choice.

As for their being out and about past a time you or anyone else seems to think inappropriate for young women, rings of a Taliban-like perspective regarding women in general.

If, you care to criticize their poor situational awareness or lack of street smarts, that might be a reasonable argument applicable to all genders, but, criticizing them with words like their "behavior" is revealing of a paternalistic/disapproving attitude towards women - to say the least.

Buying food late at night isn't indicative of bad behavior.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Give me a break. I'm new to this forum, can someone let me know if everyone is this judgmental and paranoid?

You're going to be newly gone too, if you don't change your attitude. Read the rules before you post again.

Chas.

[Embalmo]

"Would you be comfortable with your wife, girlfriend, daughter, sister, mother
behaving as these women did?"

Wow!

Worded like a disapproving Mullah.

"behaving" is a rather revealing word choice.

As for their being out and about past a time you or anyone else seems to think inappropriate for young women, rings of a Taliban-like perspective regarding women in general.

If, you care to criticize their poor situational awareness or lack of street smarts, that might be a reasonable argument applicable to all genders, but, criticizing them with words like their "behavior" is revealing of a paternalistic/disapproving attitude towards women - to say the least.

Buying food late at night isn't indicative of bad behavior.

Yes it was their behavior that was unwise. It was their behavior that got them into a dangerous situation. And behaving differently would have kept the situation from occurring to them in the first place. Being out at that hour is dangerous for anyone, but it is especially dangerous for young people and women as they are considerably more vulnerable to attacks. I absolutely welcome any information that would refute these claims. Quite honestly I'm tired of explaining the difference between bad behavior and irresponsible, risky behavior.

It is absolutely mournful ( especially here) that an individual would resort to such a personal attack for the trivial reward of winning an argument.

Embalmo

[Charles L. Cotton]

Discussion if fine, argument isn't. Come on guys!

Chas.

[Embalmo]

Give me a break. I'm new to this forum, can someone let me know if everyone is this judgmental and paranoid?

You're going to be newly gone too, if you don't change your attitude. Read the rules before you post again.

Chas.

I'm not offended by being called paranoid or judgmental, it happens fairly regularly (I'm conservative, I have a CHL, and I live in Austin), but I gotta' tell you, in my opinion, members shouldn't be allowed to compare others to Taliban members here. (you know, those guys who are killing our servicemen in Afghanistan) Just seems a little sensitive to me considering that we are at war with the Taliban.

Embalmo

[A-R]

Doing what I know not to do and trying to jump in middle of this as peace-maker.

Would everyone who is arguing please stop and re-read Kevin's post from about two pages ago ....

what people are saying is more about situational awareness than a 'they asked for it' judgement

While some posts may not have been perfectly worded to get across this meaning, I think we can all agree that this is what is really being discussed here. I don't think anyone is saying these women "deserved" what they got. Some may be saying they put themselves, needlessly, into a dangerous situation. Everyone has their own definition of "dangerous situation". And while someone else's definition may seem "overprotective" to you, or even in some ways analogous to an authoritarian male-dominated religious state, words like "Taliban" are a bit harsh and carry some extremely negative connotations. There are better ways to get your point across. Simply stating you feel chastising women for going to drive thrus at 2:30 am is overbearing like a totalitarian Muslim state, or even comparing it to forcing women to wear burkas - while obviously hyperbole - gets your point aross better than using an incendiary buzzword like "Taliban"

[Oldgringo]

"Would you be comfortable with your wife, girlfriend, daughter, sister, mother
behaving as these women did?"

Abe, 'ol buddy, 'ol pal,

You attacked the question, you didn't answer it.



austinrealtor, 'ol buddy, 'ol pal,

Your intentions are honorable; however, it would be interesting to see how this thread plays out. It seems to me that there is an unyielding response herein that reveals a, "let's blame {this}, whatever {this} is, on somebody else rather than take responsibility for our actions mindset".

I wonder where this blame placing - responsibility denying mindset comes from in today's society? Long ago, my Momma told me that, "sooner or later, your chickens will come home to roost". FWIW, she was right.

[Carry-a-Kimber]

So driving thru at a fast food joint, in a convertable, at 2:30 in the morning is an irresponsable act? Its something that if you do, you have to take responsablity for whatever may happen to you? Most days I am driving home from a bar between 2 and 4 in the morning, stone sober, returning from work. Sometimes I drive my wife's Jeep with the top off. There isn't a drive thru between work and my house by I often stop off for gas on the way home. Every night when I get home I walk my dog a few miles, I live in the "hood". I guess if someone gets the jump on me one night, its my own darn fault for having such a high risk lifestyle.

[Embalmo]

I honestly didn't think that I would ever have to debate personal responsibility on a CHL forum.

[Kevinf2349]

So driving thru at a fast food joint, in a convertable, at 2:30 in the morning is an irresponsable act? Its something that if you do, you have to take responsablity for whatever may happen to you? Most days I am driving home from a bar between 2 and 4 in the morning, stone sober, returning from work. Sometimes I drive my wife's Jeep with the top off. There isn't a drive thru between work and my house by I often stop off for gas on the way home. Every night when I get home I walk my dog a few miles, I live in the "hood". I guess if someone gets the jump on me one night, its my own darn fault for having such a high risk lifestyle.

Are you a young female? (Given that you have a wife, I am guessing not) so your arguement is fundamentaly flawed right from the get go I would think.

[Carry-a-Kimber]

So, what may be construed as irresponsible behaviour for a young female may be rational behaviour for a young male?

[Kevinf2349]

But would you let your wife do it? (unarmed)

Whether it is PC or not men and women are different, the dangers and the type of predators are different, If you think that it is wise and safe to let your wife drive a convertable to a drive-thru at 02:30 in the monring, that is your choice. I am not denying you that choice, all I am saying is that the danger level of doing that is high.

You obviously see on harm any of your family female members taking higher risk situations, I do for my family. I have total trust in my family, but it is the other people I am weary of.