Post-incident survival - in public

[Hoi Polloi]

First thing I'd do if I disabled what I thought was a lone BG, I'd reholster my weapon, keeping it a little more accessible if needed again (quite possibly with my hand on the butt at my waist VERY casually), while keeping a very close eye on the BG. Possible people whom may be around you, witnesses and others walking up after hearing a gun discharge in public don't need to see you pointing a gun at a disabled BG and drawing conclusions. This will keep people from freaking out and riling up the LEO(s) to your presence when they get there and will also keep other CHL holders and LEO's from mistaking you for a BG.

Try to get in touch, or back in touch, with a 911 operator to update them on the situation and hopefully get that info through to the responding LEO(s). Don't leave anything up to chance and don't flee the scene. Just act calmly and don't have your gun out if you don't need it out any further. When LEO(s) arrive have both hands visible away from pockets; place them in the air to flag them down. That will give you something non-aggressive and non-questionable to do with your hands while they approach. I would strongly suggest you identify yourself as the one whom "disabled" the BG and let them know you are a CHL holder and that you are currently still armed; use words not actions to get that across, ofcourse. Don't dig in pockets for yo0ur gun OR your CHL license until you're told to do so.

I have never been in any situations demanding of these actions, but I have read these forums and other stories and have pondered much. So, by all means, if you disagree with any of my opinions on the best course of actions let me know.

I think the main issue is, what do you do if you still feel the need to keep your gun on the BG?

I'd keep shooting.

[Purplehood]

That would obviate the need to keep your gun out where folks and LEO's can get upset about it. But I think that may be a personal choice depending on the situation.

[Excaliber]

It's definitely a good idea to work through the details before you find yourself in an actual situation.

In the interests of continuing plan refinement, if the BG is between you and the approaching police, and the BG selects that moment to initiate an attack on either you or the police, which of you can safely fire without endangering the other?

Consider also that, if you fired on the bad guy, both the police and any witnesses would in all likelihood see what appears to be you shooting at the police.

{{{Sigh}}}... thanks a lot, Excaliber.

This is a lot harder than I thought at first.

Let's see...I don't want to lose sight of the BG. I don't want to get in his way if he gets up and escapes. I don't want him to attack me again. I don't want the police to mistake me for a BG and shoot me. I can't trust 911 to convey the correct information to the responding officers. This is a dilemma wrapped in a conundrum.

The guy that was shot six times while holding the BG at gunpoint had his back to the officers. Apparently that's a bad idea, even when your wife tells the officers that her husband is the one with the gun, please don't shoot him. So I think I should be facing the officers, at least enough that they can see my hands and my gun, but I clearly cannot even appear to point my gun in their direction. So, if possible, the entering officers should be at 90 degrees or less to me, with the BG in view but not with the officers in the line of fire. If possible, I want the officers to see my strong hand and the fact that my finger is not on the trigger. The gun needs to be pointed toward the floor and directionally away from the officers.

Am I getting warmer?

You're welcome. And yes, you're getting much warmer.

Here are a couple of thoughts that may advance the discussion.

If possible you want to see the officers before they see you so you can position yourself properly. You definitely don't want to have a gun in your hand when they first approach unless that absolutely can't be avoided, because as we've all seen, lots of bad things can happen from there.

A position 90 degrees off their expected approach path and not in line between the BG and their line of approach is just about ideal, but remember there may be more than 1 viable way to get to you from where they are, and multiple responding units may well come from multiple directions.

Outdoors, consider relocating to a nearby position behind improvised cover (mailbox, light pole, tree. concrete trash container, vehicle, etc.) with 30 feet or more distance between you and the downed BG. This makes it difficult for even a determined BG to attack you more quickly than you could respond and makes it viable for you to safely reholster your gun while still keeping the ability to redeploy it in time if the BG should renew his attack.

In an indoor situation with other people around, you might consider asking a store clerk, manager, etc. to lock the entry door to prevent other folks from walking in and to meet police at the door if you can't do that yourself to provide basic info and point out who is who. This also has risks, so if you decide to go this way, tell them what to say if you can.

If for some reason you're caught in the open, consider increasing the distance further and positioning yourself so the BG will have to crank around to figure out where you are. This buys reaction time, and BG's have just as hard a time shooting accurately as the range increases as you do. This should still allow you to reholster with reasonable safety while retaining the ability to respond if necessary.

If you can't reholster (as in the case of someone who's on the line with 911 with a cell phone in one hand and wearing one of those floppy holsters that collapse when the gun comes out and needs two hands to get the gun back in), you might consider putting the gun down but within easy reach. That way you can simply step back away from it with your hands raised and in view when the police arrive with little risk of creating an apparent threat profile.

If you can make the 911 call, it's advantageous to stay on the line with the dispatcher and provide details on who is where, what you and the BG look like, and, if your gun will still be in view, how you're managing that so responding officers will know what to expect as they approach. Any sounds related to the incident will also go on the911 recording, and this may be helpful as long as you don't blurt out something that's not.

Raising your hands with palms out and fingers spread to a position clearly in view and away from your body and loudly proclaiming that you are the "victim" or "complainant" and the man on the ground is the "suspect" in a (fill in the type of crime) who needs medical attention (if he's been injured) should get things off on the right foot.

It's a good idea to pre discuss with your attorney how much you should say about how things got to that point before deciding how much detail to provide to investigators before you have an opportunity to talk to him about the specifics.

There are too many potential variations in circumstances to come up with a prescription that'll always work, but thinking some of the easily foreseeable sets through ahead of time will give you a repertoire you can draw on when and if you need it.