CHL defends self and car

[Beiruty]

its not about the car, it is about a gun pointed at your head. The carjacker had the intent to inflict great bodily harm or death. He had the capability of doing so too. If It was me, and I would hunt the chance to draw and terminate the threat. Any decent CHLer should be prepared to do the same.
No one cannot emphasize the importance of range time, range time and more pro training in self defense.

Tip: throw the keys away to the pavement if you have to. Have some space, let the BG run after your keys, and take care of the problem.

[ELB]

Like it would be better to rely on the kindness of the criminal who is already holding you at gunpoint.

Exactly. When thug is pointing a gun at you, the issue is not robbery; the issue is whether he is going to be the sole decider of whether you live or not. The reason it galls me so much when people, cops especially, say "it's not worth your life" is because they are flat wrong. The robber pointing a gun is telling you by his action that he has already decided that your life is worth less than whatever he is trying to rob you of. And that may be true regardless of whether you cooperate or not. As in this case http://www.12newsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=12908534" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; It is rather unhealthy to rely on the possibility he may be bluffing.

...(starting the 'gunfight').

The carjacker started the gunfight when he pulled out his gun to rob this guy. He just didn't realize it for a moment or two.

[Beiruty]

Exactly, Just watch the latest in the first 48 hrs. "Life Snatched" http://www.aetv.com/the_first_48/video/index.jsp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The robber who was snatching a lady purse shot and killed his victim in few secs, no resistance. The poor lady, had four kids, unemployed, lost her home, and had no money whatsoever! Even the killer was devastated when he learned more about his victim.

[dubya]

It's helpful to be able to read about this type of scenario an think, in advance, about what you might do.
The exact situation, in the heat of the moment, might dictate different actions.
My preference would be to simply get away from the danger. But, the perp with the guy might be threatening enough to make me feel more action was needed. Not sure what I would do here...except not drive a Hummer with giant chrome wheels every banger would want.
But, they can want anything, like the penniless lady in Miami murdered during a purse snatching.
More to think about ....

One thing I do know. I prefer to be armed and have options.

[Texas Size 11]

and this is just my opinion.
1st: It may have started as a property theft, but once the BG displayed and threatened another with a firearm, the situation was no longer about protecting a car.
2nd: If your not moving during a gun fight, your doing something wrong. You should be moving to gain a better position, cover, escape.
3rd: There is a lack of details from the story linked to come to a conclusion as to what really happened, or why.

On the surface, it does sound like the BG's chose the wrong sheep to carjack.

Have to agree with point #1. Once he pulled the gun, it is all about survival. I wouldn't take a chance waiting to see whether the carjacker shot me or not.

[M1A]

Yes, that "Last 48" was horrid. "Let me get that" he said as he yanked her purse away. In my opinion, in that scenario there would be little chance for another outcome unless you saw him exit the car, even then...

[Purplehood]

I have speculated about what might happen in a carjacking scenario. As I understand it, one of the scenarios is to hit a victim while at a stop-light with cars all around blocking any escape.
My concern would be how would I handle sitting behind the wheel of my car and seeing a BG approach between cars. Do I shoot at him/her and not worry about the innocent bystander operating/passenger in the car to my left?

[texasjeep44]

I have speculated about what might happen in a carjacking scenario. As I understand it, one of the scenarios is to hit a victim while at a stop-light with cars all around blocking any escape.
My concern would be how would I handle sitting behind the wheel of my car and seeing a BG approach between cars. Do I shoot at him/her and not worry about the innocent bystander operating/passenger in the car to my left?

Before thinking about shooting the guy, I would give serious consideration to using your car to get away. You did state that there would be other cars blocking your escape, but if you don't get right up on the bumper of the gun in front of you, you can make it through.

Next, use your car as a battering ram, or as a weapon if you have to. Most cars have enough power to get you past another vehicle if you hit it on an angle at the quarter panel or someplace similar. If the guy is truely possing threat to you ram him between your car and another car. A several thousand pound vehicle is just if not more deadly than a 100 to 200 grain bullet. If he is approaching from the back on the drivers side, cut your wheels hard right and slam it in reverse with the skinny pedal on the floor. When the front of you car heads towards him he most likely will move, if nothing else, it will hopefully put him in front of you instead of behind you, where you can get some cover behind the dash, and be shooting forward instead of trying to shot behind you and drive forward if it comes down to it.

Until it happens you never know what options you will have, but using the vehicle is a great one to keep in mind in some situtations.

[Purplehood]

I have speculated about what might happen in a carjacking scenario. As I understand it, one of the scenarios is to hit a victim while at a stop-light with cars all around blocking any escape.
My concern would be how would I handle sitting behind the wheel of my car and seeing a BG approach between cars. Do I shoot at him/her and not worry about the innocent bystander operating/passenger in the car to my left?

Before thinking about shooting the guy, I would give serious consideration to using your car to get away. You did state that there would be other cars blocking your escape, but if you don't get right up on the bumper of the gun in front of you, you can make it through.

Next, use your car as a battering ram, or as a weapon if you have to. Most cars have enough power to get you past another vehicle if you hit it on an angle at the quarter panel or someplace similar. If the guy is truely possing threat to you ram him between your car and another car. A several thousand pound vehicle is just if not more deadly than a 100 to 200 grain bullet. If he is approaching from the back on the drivers side, cut your wheels hard right and slam it in reverse with the skinny pedal on the floor. When the front of you car heads towards him he most likely will move, if nothing else, it will hopefully put him in front of you instead of behind you, where you can get some cover behind the dash, and be shooting forward instead of trying to shot behind you and drive forward if it comes down to it.

Until it happens you never know what options you will have, but using the vehicle is a great one to keep in mind in some situtations.

Believe me, my first thoughts would always be to use the car as a possible weapon. But my concerns are when you simply can't. How much consideration should you give to how the bullets fly?

[pbwalker]

I wonder what legal ramifications there would be if:

1. Carjacker comes up, points a gun in your face.
2. You "comply" and get out of the car, hand him / her the keys and back away
3. When the carjacker takes his eyes off of you for the split second to get in the vehicle, you dispatch of said carjacker.
4. Carjacker is DRT

Anyone know?

[Pawpaw]

How much consideration should you give to how the bullets fly?

Just remember that you own those bullets and whatever (or whoever) they hit. They are your responsibility, good or bad.

[Keith B]

I wonder what legal ramifications there would be if:

1. Carjacker comes up, points a gun in your face.
2. You "comply" and get out of the car, hand him / her the keys and back away
3. When the carjacker takes his eyes off of you for the split second to get in the vehicle, you dispatch of said carjacker.
4. Carjacker is DRT

Anyone know?

Well, first off, you will have to have your car cleaned.

But, legally, you have the right to use deadly force

Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and

(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or

(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

(b) The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:

(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:

(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; or

(C) was committing or attempting to commit an offense described by Subsection (a)(2)(B);

(2) did not provoke the person against whom the force was used; and

(3) was not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic at the time the force was used.

(c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is not required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this section.

(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(2), in determining whether an actor described by Subsection (c) reasonably believed that the use of deadly force was necessary, a finder of fact may not consider whether the actor failed to retreat.

[texasjeep44]

Your always responsible for each bullet the comes out of your gun. If it hits the bad guy, well so be it. If it hits an innocent bystander, well then one has serious problems.

[PUCKER]

Well, first off, you will have to have your car cleaned.

But, legally, you have the right to use deadly force

at the car cleaned comment - that was my first thought too! And Keith B got the legalese right as well. I think about the same scenario - depending on the situation, of course - sure...take it...BANG - that's one option. Driving away may be another option, using the vehicle as a weapon may be an option, drawing/firing right there may be an option, a left elbow to the BG's jaw may be an option, a hard-open/slam of the door into the BG may be an option, etc...I drive a Jeep Wrangler that is without doors/windows (just the windshield and a hard bikini top) for the majority of the year so I'm always thinking about what to do if carjacked. Fortunately, the carpet is out of the vehicle so it would be a hose-out job, maybe a new headrest too, the seats are the "YES" cloth (stain resistant so far). But I do look at the options, that's a VERY vulnerable vehicle the way it is. Sure, I could put the hard top/hard doors on but then that ruins the "fun" of a Jeep to me. I have no hesitation about going over a BG, over a curb, off-road, into another vehicle, etc. to evade/protect myself. In addition to firepower there's also a nice 4D cell Maglite between the seat and center console - it makes quite a weapon up-close. Just my thoughts.