To apply or not to apply...

[tomc]

Here are a few advantages to having your CHL that you should consider. I can't think of any real disadvantages.

1. Having a CHL gives you the option to carry outside of your car and not having to lock your firearm up inside your car.
2. If you are stopped by an LEO, having a CHL informs the LEO that you are a law-abiding citizen and has less to worry about than if you don't.
3. If you don't have a CHL and the LEO asks you if you have any weapons in the car, what do you do? Do you tell him the truth and inform your passengers, or lie and possibly get yourself into trouble later?
4. Consider making up a couple of business cards that say: a) you have a CHL and are carrying, but you don't want your passengers to know, or b) you have a CHL and are not carrying and would prefer that your passengers not know you have one. The LEO would probably respect your wishes and not inform them if you ask him this way.
5. Having a CHL generally lets you skip the background check if and when you want to buy a firearm.

I hope you get the CHL, because we need more responsible young people out there who carry.

[The Annoyed Man]

Hello Everyone,

Glad I found this website, its full of so much information I've been needing!

So here's my deal: I took the CHL class yesterday, passed with flying colors (100% written, 246 score shooting), however I'm now having second thoughts on whether to actually turn in the application or not...

My worries center around three issues.

Welcome to the forum.

1) I'm not entirely certain its worth getting the license anymore. With the new laws in place that allow for unlicensed concealment in a car, which would be the primary place I'd have my gun, I don't know if it's really something I need. I'm a student, so I wouldn't have it on me during the day, and would really only need it on the drive to and from campus. I took the class primarily to get an in-depth lesson on all the new laws and regulations regarding use of force, and really enjoyed the class. The DPS fee price is not necessarily an issue but I'd obviously rather not spend the $140 if there's no real need.

Do you plan on being a student for longer than the 5 years your license would be active? Can you not conceive of a single situation in which you might wish you had a gun on you, and in which MPA or being at home would not apply? I'm not saying you need to carry a gun all the time, or that you really need to file the papers. Those are decisions only you can make. But, consider that if you amortize that $140 out over the next five years, you've spent only $28.00 per year. I know you said that the cost isn't an issue, but perhaps that will sweeten the deal. But at the end of the day, I wear my seatbelt not because I'm worried about my own driving, but because I'm worried about other drivers. I don't imagine that I'll be in a wreck, but I wear the belt in case somebody else wrecks near me. Same thing for the CHL.

2) I've heard (from someone who really doesn't have much authority on the issue) that there could be instances where being a CHL holder could put me at greater liability when it comes to legal issues. According to the person's retired police uncle, "if anything were to go down, and you had a CHL, you'd be in bigger trouble cause you're supposed to know better." From what I could get from the person, they were under the impression that the punishment for a serious gun-related crime could be worse if I had a CHL compared to if I didn't... Obviously this makes no logical sense to me, but I was wondering if anyone had anything to say about it?

You're right. It makes no sense at all. Actually, the inverse is probably true. But as others have pointed out, if it's a righteous shooting... well, like seamusTx said, just don't shoot anyone who doesn't need to be shot.

3) I'm somewhat disturbed that it is linked to our Driver's License. I often have people in my car who I would prefer did not know about my gun ownership (I'm only 21 and very small so it generally comes as a huge shock to those who I tell about my guns).

Consider this hypothetical situation: I choose not to carry, for whatever reason, and get pulled over for speeding with friends in the car who do not know about my guns or CHL. Since I'm not carrying and don't want them to know about it, I decide not to hand the officer my CHL when he asks for ID. He goes back to his car, sees that I'm a CHL holder, and comes back and openly says something along the lines of "I see you have a CHL". This officer has essentially just disclosed to the people in my car that I have a CHL, which should have remained private information.

Is this a situation that could actually occur, or is there a way to avoid the officer asking the question without giving away the information anyways? The way I look at it, even if I DO show the CHL from the start, he'll ask if I'm carrying, so there's no way to avoid it.

Thanks for reading, anybody have thoughts?

Hand him one of two pre-written notes along with your ID, depending on your situation at the time.

1) "Hello officer. You'll see when you run my TDL that I have a CHL. I did not present it to you today because I am not carrying a weapon. I would prefer that my passengers are not informed that I hold a CHL. Thank you for your assistance in this regard."

2) "Hello officer. I have presented you with both my TDL and CHL. I am currently armed. The pistol is located on my right hip, under my shirt, in an IWB holster. My passengers are not aware of my holding a CHL, and I would very much prefer it to stay that way. Thank you for your assistance in this regard."

Alternatively, you could try pursuing the more logical, safer, and mature approach. Stop driving like a philistine and slow down. Your passengers will be grateful. So will the other drivers on the road. And you won't have to win any driving awards from the local constabulary.

[drjoker]

1)I don't know if it's really something I need.

2) you'd be in bigger trouble cause you're supposed to know better."

3) I often have people in my car who I would prefer did not know about my gun ownership

1. You never really need a gun nor a CHL. You really don't need life insurance, but it's nice to have it, just in case.

2. If ignorance of the law is a defense for breaking it, then wouldn't all criminals claim ignorance? I guarantee you that ignorance of the law is zero defense against jail time for breaking the law.

3. The new law states that you don't have to disclose your CHL status. If you are armed, I do suggest that you let the officer know this, but if you're not, then just tell the officer that you're NOT armed and you'll do just fine.

Get the CHL. It is a great way to let congress know that there are more and more constituents who are concerned about 2nd A rights. Welcome to the board.

[Hoi Polloi]

3. The new law states that you don't have to disclose your CHL status.

That's not quite accurate. It is still an offense, but the new law removes the penalty for not disclosing it.

I'd say 1) go ahead and get it since you already did all the work and then you have the option of carrying if you ever want to and 2) when you have friends in the car you really don't want to see you get pulled over then don't speed when they're with you.

[seamusTX]

So what are you waiting for, Hoi Polloi?

- Jim

[jester]

You really don't need life insurance

If you have no dependents, you don't need life insurance. OP said they're in college and most college students have no dependents (and many are dependents.)

2. If ignorance of the law is a defense for breaking it, then wouldn't all criminals claim ignorance? I guarantee you that ignorance of the law is zero defense against jail time for breaking the law.

Ignorance of the law is a 100% defense for some. viewtopic.php?f=23&t=37168&hilit=intent&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[drjoker]

Besides, I don't know of anyone who doesn't carry a gun to know what a CHL is. If you say to an officer, "I have a CHL and I am carrying/not carrying and give him your CHL with your license with your CHL underneath your license," your passengers who are not armed will never know what a CHL is. Your adult passengers will only be annoyed that the traffic stop is going to delay the trip. Only nosy children will ask what a CHL is to which my reply would be, "a corneal handicap license. I have corneal problems with my eye, but I am allowed to drive because they are not that bad. The extra card I gave the officer is my health insurance card to prove that I will not be a ward of the state in case it does get bad."

3. The new law states that you don't have to disclose your CHL status.

That's not quite accurate. It is still an offense, but the new law removes the penalty for not disclosing it.

Hoi Polloi is right. Sorry, IANAL.

[seamusTX]

Who cares, and why? Are they going to disinherit you?

My life has only gotten better since I stopped caring what people who don't sign my paycheck or can't arrest me think. That was about 20 years ago.

- Jim

[Hoi Polloi]

So what are you waiting for, Hoi Polloi?

- Jim

In my case, I am not a college student who has completed all the steps and need only to send off the paperwork, but for the concerns of whether it is worth the cost that isn't really that big of a deal to me, whether it increases liability if a CHL holder shoots, and how I would handle driving with people I didn't want to know I had a CHL. If I were, I'd tell myself to send it off and not speed with them in the car.

[seamusTX]

You've got the religion. Get confirmed.

As for traffic stops, making an effort to obey the law certainly helps. But anybody can have a brain fart and blow a speed limit or stop sign. I've done it. One day I had a police car following me in a small town that has a reputation for exploitative traffic stops. I checked my speed, made sure I had my wallet, scanned the windshield, and realized that my inspection was about three months expired.

Nothing happened.

- Jim

[jester]

Bulbs also burn out. Sometimes even while you're driving.

[horns434]

My life has only gotten better since I stopped caring what people who don't sign my paycheck think

Sign the paycheck? No. Pay the rent/tuition? YES.

As for people not knowing what a CHL is, they may be anti-gun doctors, but they know all about CHLs and what they're for.

[horns434]

Hand him one of two pre-written notes along with your ID, depending on your situation at the time.

1) "Hello officer. You'll see when you run my TDL that I have a CHL. I did not present it to you today because I am not carrying a weapon. I would prefer that my passengers are not informed that I hold a CHL. Thank you for your assistance in this regard."

2) "Hello officer. I have presented you with both my TDL and CHL. I am currently armed. The pistol is located on my right hip, under my shirt, in an IWB holster. My passengers are not aware of my holding a CHL, and I would very much prefer it to stay that way. Thank you for your assistance in this regard."

I'm wondering if anyone has actually tried this and what the results were, and/or what any LEOs here would think about it.

[longtooth]

I dont know of anyone that has made a card. I do know one that was stopped & handed both plastics & ins. to the officer & quietly said, Yes, discrete for passangers please. That officer did the checks, gave the ticket, & handed back the plastics. No one can say what the next officer may do.

[seamusTX]

Sign the paycheck? No. Pay the rent/tuition? YES.

Well, you're an adult. Some decisions are difficult.

- Jim