Philly PD arresting PA residents carrying on FL license

[hirundo82]

There's a story in the Philadelphia paper about Philly police (illegally) arresting Pennsylvania residents who are carrying on a Florida license:

In the last two years, Philadelphia police have confiscated guns from at least nine men - including four security guards - who were carrying them legally, and only one of the guns has been returned, according to interviews with the men.

This is apparently a result of Philly being strict about a requirement in the law regarding issuance of a PA LTCF (license to carry firearms) that the applicant be of good moral character (judging from the picture in the article, they don't like African-American men carrying for one thing). PA has long been a shall-issue state and has strong preemption of gun ownership and carry laws, but the Philadelphia government unfortunately has the attitude regarding gun ownership that one would expect of a Northeastern city.

Pennsylvania, like Texas, apparently allows its residents to carry on an out-of state permit. I thought this was interesting to us as CHL holders, and why I posted it in the Texas CHL subforum instead of Other States, because of the debate over Texas residents carrying on a Utah or Florida license rather than getting a Texas CHL.

While I'm a big proponent of Texas residents getting a Texas license, I recognize there are people who aren't eligible for a CHL for some reason and that getting another license is a good option for them. For those of us who can get a Texas CHL, there are advantages over one from another state--bypassing the NICS check, compliance with the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act, and avoiding confusion if stopped by police.

[A-R]

"Officers' safety comes first, and not infringing on people's rights comes second," said Lt. Fran Healy, special adviser to the police commissioner.

Wow, that quote is gonna ruffle some feathers.

[KFP]

If you have a little time compare the application process for a license from Centre County PA to Philadelphia.

Centre County: http://www.co.centre.pa.us/sheriff/lice ... cation.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Philadelphia: http://phillypolice.com/forms" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Same state, very different process. Philly wishes it could be NYC in my opinion.

[VoiceofReason]

They should not only sue the city, they should also try to get a piece of the police officers retirement.

That is the only way some learn.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

OP:

You commented that PA has strong pre-emption laws, meaning that
the state of PA is to make all firearm laws, not the cities/counties.

But the NRA magazine and emails have said that certain PA cities
are flaunting this law and making their own rules. Pittsburgh is one
of them, but there are others.

The PA Attorney General seems to be asleep at the switch as far as
using his statewide authority to spank these non-compliant cities into
observing the pre-emption laws. Sheesh.

SIA

[A-R]

Great quote from one of the men whose guns were confiscated when he was arrested without cause.

"If ignorance of the law is not an excuse for a citizen, it cannot be an excuse for law enforcement who are sworn to enforce the law."

[maximus2161]

Great quote from one of the men whose guns were confiscated when he was arrested without cause.

"If ignorance of the law is not an excuse for a citizen, it cannot be an excuse for law enforcement who are sworn to enforce the law."

I am very pro law enforcement but that statement is absolutely true. Im sure that officer was thinking of other fellow LEO's safety when that comment "Officers' safety comes first, and not infringing on people's rights comes second," said Lt. Fran Healy, special adviser to the police commissioner." was made, sure. However if you are going to arrest someone it would be wise to know the laws related to the offense. That statement just seems arrogant and sends a message that if it means a citizens gets wrongfully arrested to ensure officer saftey than its an acceptable casualty of the situation. That may not be what Lt Fran Healy meant but thats how it sounds and the previous statement in the report "Lt. Fran Healy, special adviser to the police commissioner, acknowledged that some city cops apparently are unfamiliar with some concealed-carry permits. But he said that it's better for cops to "err on the side of caution." Err on the side of caution when in comes to arresting someone? How about you check to see if there is a crime involved before arresting someone. If I was the police commisioner I would be looking for a new special advisor.

Not sure if there is more to the story but I know if I was one of these men arrested I would too file a lawsuit. Again I totally support law enforcement. Its a tough job.

[VoiceofReason]

Looks like they need to clean up their own house.

Philly Officer Arrested As Drug Dealer
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/loc ... rug_Dealer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Retired Philadelphia police officer arrested
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?secti ... id=7438852" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Phila. officer arrested for assault
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?secti ... id=7621687" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Philly Cop Arrested in Connection With Multi-Car Crash
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/loc ... 45237.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A Philadelphia police officer has been arrested after allegedly exposing himself while on duty.
http://cbs3.com/topstories/officer.jose ... 47670.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Three Philadelphia police officers have been arrested in an ambitious alleged conspiracy to steal 300 grams of heroin from an alleged drug supplier and then sell the drugs to another drug dealer.
http://jonathanturley.org/2010/07/15/ph ... onspiracy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[sweetsingingangel]

I have family that lives in Philly and was hoping to go visit them next summer. It scares me to go into the city and not being able to carry since you can get jumped in Philly in broad daylight and nobody would care. I know for a fact how "wicked" and twisted Philly cops are. My aunt was dated a mounted police officer for 18 years, who kept making her promises...and never following through, who is now doing time in federal prison for a job related crime. Not going to go into details on it, but it is definately scary. I have heard from my cousins and all how bad the police are getting in Philly and it makes me wonder why I really want to visit my family. I wish they did have reciprocity with Texas, but after reading this article, I'm glad they don't since Lord only knows if it would happen to me also.

[ScottDLS]

I have family that lives in Philly and was hoping to go visit them next summer. It scares me to go into the city and not being able to carry since you can get jumped in Philly in broad daylight and nobody would care. I know for a fact how "wicked" and twisted Philly cops are. My aunt was dated a mounted police officer for 18 years, who kept making her promises...and never following through, who is now doing time in federal prison for a job related crime. Not going to go into details on it, but it is definately scary. I have heard from my cousins and all how bad the police are getting in Philly and it makes me wonder why I really want to visit my family. I wish they did have reciprocity with Texas, but after reading this article, I'm glad they don't since Lord only knows if it would happen to me also.

They DO have reciprocity with Texas, so you could carry. I have a non-res PA permit and also a Texas CHL, but could legally carry with TX license. Of course, the original premise of this thread was that Phila police were arresting people carrying on a Florida non-res. I did get the impression though that they were talking about PA residents with a FL non-res.

[The Annoyed Man]

"Officers' safety comes first, and not infringing on people's rights comes second," said Lt. Fran Healy, special adviser to the police commissioner.

Wow, that quote is gonna ruffle some feathers.

That got my attention too. If the officers in question would take the time to be familiar with the law, they could give both equal priority. It also sounds like each of them was guilty of AWB - "Armed While Black" - which is the original source of gun-control laws to begin with. More subliminal racism on the part of liberalism.

[Oldgringo]

.... Philly wishes it could be NYC in my opinion.

Same as in my opinion.

I would like to RV to Maine and Vermont and upper New York state but having to pass thru those vermin infested metropolis' in the NE will cause me to do my touring of those areas via National Geographic and NetFlix.