Defensive options for kids

[pbwalker]

After seeing the "Talk To Your Kids" thread, it reignited a concern I had discussed with my wife a few weeks back.

I'm the father of a two year old who's quite the little genius for her age (yeah, I know...I sound like every other father...haha) and a 4 month old. Both girls.

When she gets older, I want her to be able to keep herself safe. To put it bluntly, I want her to be able to legally stop an attacker or kidnapper. Does this mean Martial Arts? Krav Maga? I have no idea...But until she's on par with Julie Golob, she's going to have to rely on other means.

So I'm curious what other parents have done for their children? I know the standard biting and kicking along with screaming...but sometimes that doesn't work. What next?

Granted, she's not going to be by herself anytime soon but I'm thinking when she's a little older.

[Mando'a]

After seeing the "Talk To Your Kids" thread, it reignited a concern I had discussed with my wife a few weeks back.

I'm the father of a two year old who's quite the little genius for her age (yeah, I know...I sound like every other father...haha) and a 4 month old. Both girls.

When she gets older, I want her to be able to keep herself safe. To put it bluntly, I want her to be able to legally stop an attacker or kidnapper. Does this mean Martial Arts? Krav Maga? I have no idea...But until she's on par with Julie Golob, she's going to have to rely on other means.

So I'm curious what other parents have done for their children? I know the standard biting and kicking along with screaming...but sometimes that doesn't work. What next?

Granted, she's not going to be by herself anytime soon but I'm thinking when she's a little older.

I have a 6 and 3 yr-old.

I'm enrolling the 6yr old in Karate or Kung-fu within the next month. I'd say that would be a good start.
I've also started teaching him firearm safety, and how to shoot. We started with an airsoft pistol, and rifle that resembles an AR-15.

Also, make sure your daughter can spell her full name; the full name of mom and dad; knows your address and phone #, in case she gets lost or abducted.

[sar]

The Gracie DVD series "Bullyproof" Is absolutely outstanding.

[Texas Dan Mosby]

So I'm curious what other parents have done for their children?

I would highly recommend enrollment in a grappling art like BJJ or Judo for a couple of important reasons:

1. They are EFFECTIVE, and they are effective primarily due to technique and leverage, NOT strength or power.
2. Both arts have an active competition element based on the actual techniques they train with, unlike karate and tae kwan do that use a point system basically based on playing tag.
3. Both arts can stop a threat WITHOUT causing the damage often associated with strikes. While you can certainly damage an individual, pain compliance can be enough to stop or discourage further attacks by themselves without resorting to breaking a nose, busting teeth, etc...

Females will generally be attacked by larger and stronger adversaries, and while striking and kicking can be effective, the disparity in size and power will reduce the effectiveness of those techniques. The grappling arts significantly reduce this disparity. I've rolled with some pretty good females on the mat, and while they can't match the upper body strength, many make up for it with good technique, and excellent lower body coordination using their legs.

Competition instills confidence, and provides valuable experience that can be applied real world when needed. A confident individual is FAR less likely to be targeted than is the individual that shows a lack of confidence in spirit, and in the way they carry themselves. The first little boy in school that picks on her, and gets submitted and made to apologize, will be the LAST little boy that picks on her.

The structure and discipline instilled in training will carry over to other aspects in their life. Unlike the resentment created when parents enforce discipline, it's O.K. for the trainer to be the "bad guy", and parents can benefit just as much as trainers from the discipline and respect demanded by a good school.

Of course, I would also recommend the standard American technique of teaching the fundamentals of firearms with an air rifle, than a .22, and working up to center fire arms of various types.

IMO, that's how ALL kids should be raised.

:)

[karder]

When she gets older, I want her to be able to keep herself safe. To put it bluntly, I want her to be able to legally stop an attacker or kidnapper. Does this mean Martial Arts? Krav Maga? I have no idea...But until she's on par with Julie Golob, she's going to have to rely on other means.

This is a really tough question and one that I have no doubt every parent spends a lot of time thinking about.
Here is my opinion:

I have been very involved in martial arts for what is getting close to two decades now. I have trained for years and have worked as an instructor for about 10 years. I personally only teach adults, no kids, as teaching children requires a specific skill set which I don't have. I do work with a friend who primarily teaches children and I help him with his big classes where I play the part of the "bad guy". I think martial arts are very helpful for children as far as teaching discipline, encouraging fitness, and creating awareness. Self-defense is pretty low on the ladder. A 40 pound child is simply not going to be able to stop a 200 pound man no matter what training they have. In fact, a 100 pound woman is not going to be able to stop a 200 pound man in a physical confrontation unless she gets very lucky. Hollywood has given us some crazy ideas of how physical confrontations play out.

What martial arts can teach your daughter is to pay attention, be careful of strangers, keep distance and be aware of her own vulnerability. The last one is key. If we can teach our kids that they are vulnerable, they will make better choices. That CAN save her life. My friend and I have done a lot of group classes at a some of the churches around town, and the thing that we stress to kids is that if they want to be safe, the most important thing that they can do is to tell their parents the truth. Don't say you are going to the library and then slip away to meet with friends. Small fibs will put you in places where you are around people you don't know and where your parents can get to you, and that is how you get hurt. So we teach some level of easy techniques, but pound the importance of making wise choices into their head.

About five years ago we were teaching a big class of about 300 girls between 10 and 14 years old. The class was organized by one of the churches and the pregnancy crises center. Most of the girls were pretty rough kids and were heading down the path to getting involved in gangs. One of the girls, probably about 14, was a big smart mouth and kept joking around saying "no one could do anything to me". My buddy called her up to the mat and asked her "what would you do if someone grabbed you?" Her reply was "I'd kick him in the *!@$# ". He replies, "ok, do it". I walk over and take her by the wrist. She kind of giggles and throw a half-hearted kick which I swat away. She then gets serious and throws a hard kick, which I swat away, just like the first one. She then hauls off throws a hard punch which misses and I then spin her and pin her down on the mat. Most of the kids just laughed, but she was really shaken up. We had her full attention for the rest of the class and afterwards, she came out and asked us a lot of questions and I think that we made a difference to her, at least temporarily.

Kids, just like adults, need to remember that their brains and judgment are the only tools they have to protect themselves. Unlike adults, kids don't have size and weight to their benefit or the ability to arm themselves. Teenagers need to be 100% truthful about their whereabouts and who they are spending time with, and follow curfews like their lives depend on it, because it may. That is really tough for parents to teach, and there away too many kids who suffer greatly because they did not listen to their parents "stupid rules".

[RPB]

Doctors sometimes recommend martial arts to raise self-esteem and self-confidence and self-restraint, which is good for today's young girls with mental "body issues" and respect for authority too. I know a girl who minds her parents better/is less rebellious since learning some.

[bnc]

My cousin, who is very petite, did karate when she was young and it did have those results, granted she had never been accused of being timid to begin with.

[sar]

Didn't have time when I initially posted about the Gracie DVD so here goes.
First, I have practiced martial arts since 78, and have enjoyed and found value from every style I trained in. (a fair variety over the long haul.)
This DVD series is unbelievably well thought out.

The first DVD discusses how to engage your child in enjoying the training. As a father and experienced martial artist, I sorta poo-poo'd this. I was completely wrong. This is gold for any parent even if you never train BJJ.

The next few DVDs are called the Gracie games. These are playful ground exercises you do with your kid. They have fun names like "swimming spider" and "crazy horse" and stuff like that and are fun while teaching various grappling principles.

Your child is learning the basics and principles of grappling while having fun with mom and dad. You double dip! You're having fun and bonding, and your child's learning something about ground fighting.

Then there's a a DVD on "rules of engagement" that's very well done
The remainder ofthe DVDs cover the Gracie combatives which are specific techniques for various situations.
The last DVD is on situational awareness and avoidance of danger.

I really could not recommend this set highly enough. pure gold.

[C-dub]

Karder,

I certainly agree that most of what you say is probably correct. However, I would also argue that, like CHL's, there are probably not very many people walking around with your martial arts training and experience that are BG. This also gave you quite an advantage with that 14y girl with no training and only an attitude.

Any self defense training is bound to be better than none at all. My 8y daughter is learning from a basic introductory class that is a mixture of BJJ, Judo, and Muy Thai. She has a green belt now, but it is different than if she were in an actual academy. She's a tough little girl and can hit no other 8y old I have ever seen. You know how dad's will sometimes let their kid hit them in the chest playing around? She's not allowed to do that with me any more and can only hit my hand. And I'm soon to only allow that when she has her gloves on or I have a padded glove. If when she advances beyond the class she is currently in she wants to go further I will be happy to get her into a more serious place. She is also currently in an advanced class where the kids get to grapple and spar with other students. She is the youngest and smallest and can pin or chase kids 2-3 years older than her off the mat. She doesn't always win, but it's even up with them right now.

She is about 4'5" and about 60 lbs. I am 6' and 200 lbs. We were messing around once and she had jumped on my back and then hit me right between the shoulder blades with an elbow. I went down and a tear almost made it out of on of my eyes. I understand that I was not trying to hurt or overpower her, but she is certainly capable of disabling an adult man for long enough to escape.

Just like the argument over which caliber is the most effective, it is shot placement that counts. A .22 can be deadly when it hits the right place and a kid that can land a blow in the right spot can run away. Many attackers won't expect a girl to fight back and that is where she will have the advantage. Martial arts isn't for everyone, but she's enjoying it for now and it has also done wonders for her confidence.

[Zoti]

I have been training in Muay Thai for 16 years. BJJ for seven. I
Teach Muay Thai and BJJ to adults and teens and also some MMA and I agree with what was said by the previous posters. Martial Arts will give them a good set skill. It can be effective but obviously size advantage makes a big difference. The chances of a 7 years old girl actually pulling a submission on an adult attacker are slim. But start them at 5 and when they are 12 they will be good.

Stick to a good martial art with a good instructor. Breaking boards and flying kicks look good but have very little use in a real life situation.

Teach your kids to be street smart. Not talk to strangers etc. Much better.

[C-dub]

Exactly Zoti. No submission, but maybe enough to be able to escape.

[Zoti]

Better scream for help. I doubt a girl will pull a hip escape from under a big guy sitting on her but you never know.

[RPB]

Not really a "defense" item per-se, but something I recommend too for kids (of all ages)
Personally, I wear mine everywhere, on or off the water, even to WalMart lol.

(Texas law requires a signal device for kayakers, and lots of kayakers get them to blow at inattentive powerboaters or to use to signal other kayakers in a group)

Storm Whistle (loudest whistle in the world, even works under water) and in bright fluorescent yellow or orange. (do NOT try it indoors) They are much louder than a human voice can scream.

My niece likes hers, middle school and high schoolers all seem to like the flourescent colored stuff, my kayaking hats and whistles and shirts keep getting "borrowed"
http://www.stormwhistles.com/storm.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

About 5 bucks

The "Wind Storm" is smaller and a little less loud. I get the Storm, instead of the Windstorm, but some people might want a smaller whistle.

[Divided Attention]

Granted it has been more than 12 years now, but my oldest daughter attended a workshop/class with me on situational awareness, "stanger danger", avoidance, and basics on "getting away". They covered some moves to get out of grips, making noise to attract attention, not just hollering help but "Don't touch me, I don't know you" and the like. They also taught them how to do things like kick out tail-lights in a trunk and wave your hand out the hole if placed in a trunk, taking keys if given the opportunity and throwing them hard and far. It was taught in a don't be scared, be prepared and aware style. I don't remember the name of the organization, and they may not be around any more, but I did find http://www.radkids.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; that seems to be very similar.

She later took Shorin-Ryu Karate for a couple years, which was great for focus, self confidence etc. I think martial arts are fabulous! However, I think it is most important to scope out the instructors carefully. I hear about so many that are teaching aggression and "fancy moves" or just pay and get your belt because it is time. Our belt tests were grueling and no guarantee you would pass; you had to earn it. If Sensai ever heard of you starting a fight you were out of the dojo. You were to learn for improving yourself and for defense if necessary. Just be careful that you are with someone who is teaching what you want your child to learn.

Just a thought and MHO.

PS - now both girls are learning about defense with firearms, and we hope to increase their knowledge base in the future.

[Dragonfighter]

Kids, just like adults, need to remember that their brains and judgment are the only tools they have to protect themselves. Unlike adults, kids don't have size and weight to their benefit or the ability to arm themselves. Teenagers need to be 100% truthful about their whereabouts and who they are spending time with, and follow curfews like their lives depend on it, because it may. That is really tough for parents to teach, and there away too many kids who suffer greatly because they did not listen to their parents "stupid rules".

+1

SA, SA, SA! Mine were taught from toddling to keep there eyes up and looking around.

From age two they could tell you mom and dad's names, home address and telephone numbers, dial 9-1-1 and we drilled them on finding their location for 9-1-1.

We did outdoor chores when they played outside, went with them when they went over to friends' houses and came and got them when they left.

The weren't out of our sights, and didn't want to be (though the 17 yo scared us a couple of times as a baby and ended up on a leash) until teenagers. The seventeen year old faithfully calls us when she arrives where she is, informs of detours and arrival/departures from those locations and when she leaves for home. They never stayed with anyone that we weren't intimate with their parents. If it was a lock-in at church, one of us chaperoned. The seventeen year old is training to carry in the car and both are very responsible about keeping us informed.

We have drilled them in squirming (breaking away) and evading, but we stress SA. There is no way that they can feasibly defeat a large male attacker. Both know how to shoot and know where the guns are.

Finally, we pray...a lot!