Minor in Possession question

[benjamin]

I am new to the forum and was wondering if anyone can help me on this. I am fixing to send in my application for new CHL and I remembered that over 20 years ago I was cited for a Minor in Possession of Alcohol at a party, however, I was not arrested and just given a ticket. I paid the fine and that is all I can remember. This happened when I was 16, I am now 36. My question is since I was not arrested, and it is over the 10 year statute, do I still need to disclose it on my application. I have no record whatsoever, except for a couple of speeding tickets a few years ago. What should I do? I appreciate any fast response since I will be sending in application real soon.

Thanks,

Benjamin

[benjamin]

One more addition to that recent post of mine, before I get an answer. I called the City Municpal court that I received the Minor in Possession of Alcohol citation in 1992 and she can pull no record of anything relating to that under my Birthdate or Name. I even gave her my home address at the time of citation. She said all she could pull up was speeding ticket fines that were paid in 1999 and 2007. I would hate to list something that is so old and have them delay my license for no reason especially when its not on record as an arrest.

Thanks again,

Ben

[KC5AV]

If it was only a ticket, and they find no record of an arrest, you might just list it, and have the municipality provide documentation that they have no record of it.

[Charles L. Cotton]

DPS teaches instructors that they consider an arrest to have occurred when you are photographed and fingerprinted. Citations are not an arrest per DPS.

That said, if something does show in a background check, you are going to be questioned as to why you didn't list that "arrest." You will have to explain that you were not arrested but only received a citation. I've had students in your position who listed it on their application with a notation "citation only." However, using the online application process, I'm not sure you can do that. The computer generated checklist will show that you need to submit "disposition documents" and DPS personnel processing your application are going to be looking for that document.

Chas.

[benjamin]

Thank you for the quick response. I was never arrested nor have I ever been fingerprinted or photographed for any crime. Even if there was a record of it, it was only a citation and they have no documents on record showing anything at the municpal court based on phone conversation and computer check. Should I just wait and see, I have no problem explaining or get documentation for DPS if it does end up popping up and they question it. I feel like I am not lying on the application, because I was never arrested and Im 100% positive of that. Why would I divulge information that never happened about an NON-EXISTENT class c misdemeanor arrest ? I just want to know if I am doing the wrong thing or justified by not listing it.

By the way, doesnt the penal codes, allow offenses of certain felonies after 10 years to be clear for application of CHL... I could be wrong on that interpretation. If this is the case then why would DPS need to check juvenile records dating back over 10 years much less 20 like in my case.

My CHL instructor told us that even if a juvenile committed murder, he would just have to wait 10 years from that offense and be eligible for a CHL ..... Is that correct?

[benjamin]

If you were not arrested, meaning photographed and fingerprinted, it does not go on the application.


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I got this off an older forum here. I cut and paste since my topic is newer. Who' advice should I take? It seems like there is different opinions on the subject. Im sure there is a lot of others like this that would like the concensus.

Thanks in advance..

[Keith B]

If you were not arrested, meaning photographed and fingerprinted, it does not go on the application.


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I got this off an older forum here. I cut and paste since my topic is newer. Who' advice should I take? It seems like there is different opinions on the subject. Im sure there is a lot of others like this that would like the concensus.

Thanks in advance..

Yes, this is correct IF something doesn't show on your record. And, the citation shouldn't show up (shouldn't being the operative word.)

However, as Mr. Cotton so advised, some individuals have been in doubt and listed the incident just in case and marked 'citation only' on their application. Some have also gotten a letter from the court clerk in the location where the incident occurred stating there is no record of the event and you have a clear record.

Bottom line, it probably is not going to show up, but if for some odd reason it did, then you will be asked why you didn't list it. At that time you would have to state that you were not arrested and only issued a citation and battle a potential denial for not listing it. Slim chance of this scenario though since you were a minor, not fingerprinted and only issued a citation.

[benjamin]

Thanks, Keith for setting it straight.

My interpretation is this, better to list it as a "Citation only" since it obviously doesnt disqualify me for a CHL, then to not list it and it shows up on record and having to explain and be on the defensive for it.

Basically, it probably will not show up and I am overkilling it by being too honest, when I dont necessarily have to, but in the long run will cover all my bases by listing it on application.

One last question, when I do list it and they see it, are they going to delay my CHL or see that I am clear on background checks and continue forward without making me get information from municipal court ? therefore, further delaying the process.

Once again, I do not understand why I have to defend a citation when it didnt lead to an official arrest... I just feel like I am going to make them do extra work by trying to find something that is not there, especially when I have been told I was clear by the municipal court.

To me its like saying on the application, I stole a candybar at 9 years old, yet they have no record of it because the store let me pay the price and move on when I turn 18.. Do you still want to give me a CHL Mr. DPS worker ?....... just a little humor there : )

[WildBill]

To me its like saying on the application, I stole a candybar at 9 years old, yet they have no record of it because the store let me pay the price and move on when I turn 18.. Do you still want to give me a CHL Mr. DPS worker ?....... just a little humor there : )

This has also puzzled me. The best explanation that I can think of it that it makes the job easier for the DPS. The applicant is required to list the "arrest" and furnish the proper documentation that there is no record of arrest or conviction.

[boba]

Even if you had been convicted, enough time has passed that it wouldn't disqualify you. In cases like that, it would be nice if DPS didn't hold things up for court documents that don't make a difference in whether or not you're eligible.

[benjamin]

Well it sounds like I am not the only one that has been through this. I am going to start a trend come back here and post the outcome unless someone can step up and say it happened to them. I am going to do the online app and not list the MIP (alcohol) citation. since I was not arrested as defined by the DPS. Even if for some 1 in a million chance it shows on my record then I am justified because I can prove it was not an arrest and it would not hinder my CHL qualification because of statute of limitations anyway. If it works then I believe anybody with Class C misdemeanors that have not been arrested can leave that section blank. Wish me Luck!

[WildBill]

Wish me Luck!

Luck is wished for Benjamin.

[benjamin]

Well for all those out there that were interested in the outcome. I had an original paper application that I could of sent in but decided to go with the online application. After further research, I would base this on an educated opinion, and I am not an attorney and in no ways giving legal advice. If you have ever been arrested or indicted at all, whether you were 5 or 55 years of age. No matter how little the crime, LIST IT ON YOUR APPLICATION even if you were dismissed of all charges. However, if you have received a citation for an offense that could of resulted in an arrest, but were not physically photographed or fingerprinted and put in a holding cell, especially like in my case of MIP (alchohol) then you are not at liberty to present this as an ARREST on your application. You can be on the safe side, in case some paper pusher at the Court did your paperwork wrong. In this case to be certain, just list it as a "CITATION ONLY". However, be prepared to show proof if DPS requests further information that you were not arrested and hopefully the county or city court will oblige your request for a reasonable fee to show proof AND hope this does not delay your application further. In my case, I just called the Municpal court and asked if they had record of the "Citation" and the clerk said no. So in my case, I checked to make sure I was not playing with fire, before I sent my application in and marked no arrest/criminal history. Also based on the DPS requirements per statutes, I also found out, that Juvenile records will only be reviewed going back 10 years. My intrepretation of this means that if your 28 years old or more at application time, they have no need to check your juvenile records because they will not hold anything you did against you, before the age of 17. So in my case, my offense was at 16 years of age, and I was not arrested for the Class C misdemeanor only given the "Citation" to appear in court, a lot like a speeding ticket. I am now 36, DPS would have no reason to pull juvenile records unless my background check showed an arrest or pending charge from 20 years ago on an Adult history criminal background search. Highly unlikely, unless your within 10 years of juvenile age meaning 17 or younger. So for example if your 21 years of age, then they would pull your juvenile records all the way back to 11 years of age. If your 26 years of age, then they would pull your juvenile records all the way back to 16 years of age. However, if your 28 years of age, then they would be looking for only your Adult over 18 criminal background search. This is only my intrepretation, not legal advice or persuasion to do it my way, or use this information to base what DPS considers an arrest or crime. Just some knowledge from my search for Juvenile records affecting your applicaton status.

Thanks and God bless you,


Benjamin

For God so loved the world, HE gave his only son, so that we may be saved.