Question regarding military service and DPS online form.

[pcgizzmo]

So, long story short.

I'm 41 and when I was 17 (had parents sign form) I went into the Army. At 20 I got into some trouble and got discharged (General Discharge under other than honorable conditions). To this day I'm not proud of it and would change everything I did back then but it is what it is and I have to live with it.

I can still own a hand gun and to my knowledge still have a CHL.

My question is... On the online form. It starts out asking if your a veteran. Well, I am but not really in good standing. So, when someone ask's me I always say "no". So, I just took the shortcut and went to the "Standard" form and filled it out. I by passed then first question on whether I was a veteran or not.

If the DPS see's my military background when they are doing their background check do you think that may throw up a flag if I didn't say I was a veteran? I don't think I am eligible for any of the Veteran's CHL benefits or anything and I wouldn't want them anyway because I don't deserve them but I'm just curious.

Thanks.....

[NavyGunner]

Based on the Texas DPS definition of a veteran you would not be considered a vet due to your discharge status, I would recommend checking "No" on the form and moving on. You may be ok leaving it blank because it doesn't appear to be required according to the rules for filling out the application (I believe veteran status is used to determine eligibility for fee reductions only), here's the reference:


GC §411.174. APPLICATION. (a) An applicant for a license to carry
a concealed handgun must submit to the director's designee described
by Section 411.176:
(1) a completed application on a form provided by the department
that requires only the information listed in Subsection (b);
(b) An applicant must provide on the application a statement of the
applicant's:
(1) full name and place and date of birth;
(2) race and sex;
(3) residence and business addresses for the preceding five
years;
(4) hair and eye color;
(5) height and weight;
(6)driver's license number or identification certificate number issued
by the department;
(7) criminal history record information of the type maintained by
the department under this chapter, including a list of offenses for which
the applicant was arrested, charged, or under an information or indictment
and the disposition of the offenses; and
(8) history, if any, of treatment received by, commitment to, or residence
in:
(A) a drug or alcohol treatment center licensed to provide drug
or alcohol treatment under the laws of this state or another state, but
only if the treatment, commitment, or residence occurred during the
preceding five years; or
(B) a psychiatric hospital.

Here's the reference for the definition (the only definition I could find):

TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS GC §411.199. 23
GC §411.1951. WAIVER OR REDUCTION OF FEES FOR
MEMBERS OR VETERANS OF UNITED STATES ARMED
FORCES. (a) In this section, "veteran" means a person who:
(1) has served in:
(A) the army, navy, air force, coast guard, or marine corps of
the United States;
(B) the state military forces as defined by Section 431.001; or
(C) an auxiliary service of one of those branches of the armed
forces; and
(2) has been honorably discharged from the branch of the service
in which the person served.

As for the OTH when you were younger, we've all done things that we regret later in life, learn from it and move on. Good luck.

[pcgizzmo]

Thank you. I appreciate the input.

[ex_dsmr]

Im not a lawyer and I dont work for the DPS but I think who they are looking for on that question in people that have an honest "dishonorable discharge".

[A-R]

At 20 I got into some trouble and got discharged (General Discharge under other than honorable conditions). To this day I'm not proud of it and would change everything I did back then but it is what it is and I have to live with it.

{snip}

I don't think I am eligible for any of the Veteran's CHL benefits or anything and I wouldn't want them anyway because I don't deserve them but I'm just curious.

Sir (ma'am?), don't know what you did to earn your discharge, but I must say I'm impressed by your attitude about it exhibited here in this post. Regardless of your transgressions, you obviously learned from them and at least some amount of the honor of serving our country rubbed off on you.

I won't enter a debate about whether you deserve to be called a "veteran", preferring to let you and other veterans decide that. But as someone who never served, never "took the risk in the first place", I tip my hat to you if for no other reason than the honorable way you explained your situation here

[MasterOfNone]

Im not a lawyer and I dont work for the DPS but I think who they are looking for on that question in people that have an honest "dishonorable discharge".

I suspect if that is what they intended, the reg would say "was not dishonorably discharged." Regardless, the letter of law is pretty clear - "has been honorably discharged".

[b322da]

So, long story short.

I'm 41 and when I was 17 (had parents sign form) I went into the Army. At 20 I got into some trouble and got discharged (General Discharge under other than honorable conditions). To this day I'm not proud of it and would change everything I did back then but it is what it is and I have to live with it.

I can still own a hand gun and to my knowledge still have a CHL.

My question is... On the online form. It starts out asking if your a veteran. Well, I am but not really in good standing. So, when someone ask's me I always say "no". So, I just took the shortcut and went to the "Standard" form and filled it out. I by passed then first question on whether I was a veteran or not.

If the DPS see's my military background when they are doing their background check do you think that may throw up a flag if I didn't say I was a veteran? I don't think I am eligible for any of the Veteran's CHL benefits or anything and I wouldn't want them anyway because I don't deserve them but I'm just curious.

Thanks.....

I am unaware of your question ever having been answered by the DPS, and they are the ones, I would think, who must answer it, at least in the initial instance. An administrative general discharge under other than honorable conditions means something to the military and the VA, but its meaning in any civilian context I would think is essentially up to the agency setting the standards under consideration. I guess I am saying that I suspect there is no quick and automatic answer to your question. You could of course ask DPS. Meanwhile, if the DPS suspects you wilfully answer a question untruthfully....

If I were to make a guess, based on being exposed to questions like this in the military, I would stick my neck out and guess that "Yes," you are indeed a veteran. I am unaware of a status called "veteran not in good standing."

Secondly, I would guess that if an honorable discharge is required of a CHL applicant, this could easily be read strictly by the DPS as meaning what the plain words say, one who has an "Honorable Discharge," strictly defined in federal law, and (possibly) one who has a general discharge under honorable conditions. We must assume that you accepted this discharge voluntarily, waiving your right to trial by count-martial, as was your right.

I might call something to your attention, if you are not aware of it. Unless the rules have changed lately, the VA has the authority to change the nature of your discharge. They do not have to, but they may, after considering your particular circumstances, and as a comment above implied, your very conduct here demonstrates that perhaps you are a new person. Also, do not assume that you are automatically not entitled to any veterans' benefits. Here again the VA's decision on this may be different than you might expect.

Sometimes the VA does things right.

Elmo