Alcohol and Guns

[brilaneb]

My father in law and I were talking about restrictions being a CHL holder vs. private citizen in having a gun in your car. He says that if you have anything to drink at all being a CHL holder, you are breaking the law, yet a regular citizen is not since the car is an extension of the home. Does anyone know if CHL holders are allowed to keep their gun in their car glove compartment, have a drink or two (under the legal limit for driving) and then get back into their car? I know the course taught that there is a zero limit for CHL holders, but is that only when the weapon is on you? If your car truly is an extension of your home, you are allowed to consume alcohol in your home and have your gun locked up in the house. Thanks.

[WildBill]

My father in law and I were talking about restrictions being a CHL holder vs. private citizen in having a gun in your car. He says that if you have anything to drink at all being a CHL holder, you are breaking the law, yet a regular citizen is not since the car is an extension of the home. Does anyone know if CHL holders are allowed to keep their gun in their car glove compartment, have a drink or two (under the legal limit for driving) and then get back into their car? I know the course taught that there is a zero limit for CHL holders, but is that only when the weapon is on you? If your car truly is an extension of your home, you are allowed to consume alcohol in your home and have your gun locked up in the house. Thanks.

IANAL, but this is my take.

1. He says that if you have anything to drink at all being a CHL holder, you are breaking the law

As long as you are not intoxicated, Not True.

2. Does anyone know if CHL holders are allowed to keep their gun in their car glove compartment, have a drink or two (under the legal limit for driving) and then get back into their car?

As long as you are not intoxicated, True.

3. If your car truly is an extension of your home, you are allowed to consume alcohol in your home and have your gun locked up in the house.

The difference is that you don't drive around in your house. There are seperate laws about being intoxicated in public and operating a motor vehicle. While you have the gun in your glove box it is still accessible and I think you could be cited for carrying while intoxicated. If it is in a locked trunk, you could only be cited for DUI.

Again, these are my opinions, and not legal advice.

[TDDude]

The law is the same as for driving. I believe it's .08 or higher blood alcohol and one is legally intoxicated. (someone correct me if that's changedor if the level is wrong)

Personally, if I’m carrying, which is always, I don’t drink. If I’m ever involved in an incident after having a drink with dinner, I don’t want anything coming back on me from anywhere about me having a buzz on. Any alcohol in ones system will affect reaction times and judgment and personally, I don’t think it’s worth it.

Plus, have you guys seen what these restaurants are charging for a drink with dinner these days?? It’s ridiculous. I’d much rather have a Jack Daniels pecan pie at Texas Land & Cattle after my steak than a Jack Daniels on ice with my steak.

BUT, that’s just me and not the law. As CHL holders, our limits are the same as they are with a DUI.



oh yea, I forgot to say that IANAL but my ex wife did marry one.

[ScottDLS]

My father in law and I were talking about restrictions being a CHL holder vs. private citizen in having a gun in your car. He says that if you have anything to drink at all being a CHL holder, you are breaking the law, yet a regular citizen is not since the car is an extension of the home. Does anyone know if CHL holders are allowed to keep their gun in their car glove compartment, have a drink or two (under the legal limit for driving) and then get back into their car? I know the course taught that there is a zero limit for CHL holders, but is that only when the weapon is on you? If your car truly is an extension of your home, you are allowed to consume alcohol in your home and have your gun locked up in the house. Thanks.

I have a different interpretation than your father in law was making. Here's my logic:

- Carrying (under CHL) while intoxicated is illegal.
- Driving while intoxicated is illegal.
- The legal standard for intoxication is the SAME for both.

So he feels that having one drink would make a CHL intoxicated for purposes of carrying...then he should not drive under those same circumstances, since both are illegal.

As for the car being an extension of your home...well, it is not illegal to be intoxicated in your home, however it IS to drive. There's also no law that says you must lock your gun up at home if you are intoxicated (though it might be a good idea).

[The Annoyed Man]

The law is the same as for driving. I believe it's .08 or higher blood alcohol and one is legally intoxicated. (someone correct me if that's changedor if the level is wrong)...

I don't think there is a minimum limit for CHL. It's up to the investigating/arresting officer. If he thinks you are alcohol impaired while carrying under the authority of your CHL, and you blow a .04, you're in deep trouble. It is not the same as for driving. However, and this is the important part, I believe it is the officer's discretion to decide A) to test you, and B) whether your test results constitute impairment. So while it is not illegal to consume alcohol while carrying, if you are stopped, and there is alcohol on your breath, and it is the opinion of the officer that you're impaired, it won't matter what level you blow, as long as it is more than 0.00.

[BrianSW99]

What they said, plus I'll also point out that the ability to carry a gun in a motor vehicle without a CHL has nothing to do with a vehicle being an extension of your home or what's known as the Castle Doctrine.

It was the Motorist Protection Act that amended PC46.02 to allow carrying a gun in a vehicle you own or control. It removed the undefined traveling exception we had previously.

Brian

[Barbi Q]

Intoxicated is Intoxicated. There's no minimum limit for carrying, same as there's no minimum limit for driving. Having a BAC over the presumtive BAC shows intoxication in both cases, but they can show intoxication by behavior in both cases.

There's something else your father in law missed. Drunk driving (or PI for a passenger) eliminates the MPA protection for unlicensed carry.

[Texas Size 11]

The law is the same as for driving. I believe it's .08 or higher blood alcohol and one is legally intoxicated. (someone correct me if that's changedor if the level is wrong)...

I don't think there is a minimum limit for CHL. It's up to the investigating/arresting officer. If he thinks you are alcohol impaired while carrying under the authority of your CHL, and you blow a .04, you're in deep trouble. It is not the same as for driving. However, and this is the important part, I believe it is the officer's discretion to decide A) to test you, and B) whether your test results constitute impairment. So while it is not illegal to consume alcohol while carrying, if you are stopped, and there is alcohol on your breath, and it is the opinion of the officer that you're impaired, it won't matter what level you blow, as long as it is more than 0.00.

I agree...I don't recall there being a number in the statute and I remember my CHL instructor telling me essentially the same thing as TAM said.

[TDDude]

The law is the same as for driving. I believe it's .08 or higher blood alcohol and one is legally intoxicated. (someone correct me if that's changedor if the level is wrong)...

I don't think there is a minimum limit for CHL. It's up to the investigating/arresting officer. If he thinks you are alcohol impaired while carrying under the authority of your CHL, and you blow a .04, you're in deep trouble. It is not the same as for driving. However, and this is the important part, I believe it is the officer's discretion to decide A) to test you, and B) whether your test results constitute impairment. So while it is not illegal to consume alcohol while carrying, if you are stopped, and there is alcohol on your breath, and it is the opinion of the officer that you're impaired, it won't matter what level you blow, as long as it is more than 0.00.

What can I say. My family is out of town and I got a lot of time on my hands today.
Not saying that one won't get to go for a ride but here is the law copied and pasted from the DPS website.

From the CHL lawbook:

GC §411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter: .........
(6) "Intoxicated" has the meaning assigned by Section 49.01, Penal Code.

PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
........
(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.

I dont' really know what Subchapter H, Chapter 411 means but I found this in the Texas Penal Code on intoxication definitions.

From Penal Code, Title 10.

PENAL CODE
TITLE 10. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY, AND MORALS
CHAPTER 49. INTOXICATION AND ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE OFFENSES

Sec. 49.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Alcohol concentration" means the number of grams of alcohol per:
(A) 210 liters of breath;
(B) 100 milliliters of blood; or
(C) 67 milliliters of urine.
(2) "Intoxicated" means:
(A) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or
(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.
(3) "Motor vehicle" has the meaning assigned by Section 32.34(a).

Since we're just talking about a drink or two and not all that nonsense in section 2A, .08 seems to be the magic number.

However, TAM is very correct. If the LEO thinks you're loopy, you will go for a ride.

[Barbi Q]

Since we're just talking about a drink or two and not all that nonsense in section 2A, .08 seems to be the magic number.

However, TAM is very correct. If the LEO thinks you're loopy, you will go for a ride.

same as driving.

[sugar land dave]

Wow! I keep seeing people who join and make their first post about something perhaps controversial or prejudicial. Doesn't anyone join and say hello anymore?

I'll say it: "Hello new member. Welcome to the forum. Would you like to comment on some other's posts? It can be more fun to engage in many posts even when they are more mundane. Jump right in!"

[brilaneb]

It's all about breaking the ice Sugar Land Dave. Thanks for all the replies. I agree that it is ok for me to keep my gun in the glove box, have a nice dinner with my inlaws and have one or two drinks and drive home with no worries. I just wanted to make sure my logic was sound.

[texasjeep44]

PENAL CODE
TITLE 10. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY, AND MORALS
CHAPTER 49. INTOXICATION AND ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE OFFENSES

Sec. 49.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Alcohol concentration" means the number of grams of alcohol per:
(A) 210 liters of breath;
(B) 100 milliliters of blood; or
(C) 67 milliliters of urine.
(2) "Intoxicated" means:
(A) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or
(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.
(3) "Motor vehicle" has the meaning assigned by Section 32.34(a).

That one little "OR" has great meaning. There is no legal limit of intoxication for CHL in Texas. For one person it could be .01 for another it could be .1.

You don't have to meet the criteria in "B", you can be found intoxicated by "A" alone.

[The Annoyed Man]

It's all about breaking the ice Sugar Land Dave. Thanks for all the replies. I agree that it is ok for me to keep my gun in the glove box, have a nice dinner with my inlaws and have one or two drinks and drive home with no worries. I just wanted to make sure my logic was sound.

Well, you did a good job of ice-breaking. I confess that I didn't notice you were a new member and got engrossed in the question. That's pretty good ice-breaking.

Now let me look up from my focus on the question to say, "Welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy your membership."

[BrianSW99]

PENAL CODE
TITLE 10. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY, AND MORALS
CHAPTER 49. INTOXICATION AND ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE OFFENSES

Sec. 49.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Alcohol concentration" means the number of grams of alcohol per:
(A) 210 liters of breath;
(B) 100 milliliters of blood; or
(C) 67 milliliters of urine.
(2) "Intoxicated" means:
(A) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or
(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.
(3) "Motor vehicle" has the meaning assigned by Section 32.34(a).

That one little "OR" has great meaning. There is no legal limit of intoxication for CHL in Texas. For one person it could be .01 for another it could be .1.

You don't have to meet the criteria in "B", you can be found intoxicated by "A" alone.

But the same is true for driving intoxicated as well. You don't have to be at .08 for an officer to arrest you for DWI if he thinks you're intoxicated.