Does "No weapons" mean "No CHL"?

[Teamless]

it is not 30.06 posted but there is a sign prohibiting firearms

If I see this (and I do every weekend day at the park I go to with my dogs), I drive right by it. And you should to as you know that "generic gun buster signs" and that is all this is, does not apply to CHLs

[G.A. Heath]

You say that its a public park so I assume that it is either owned or leased by a city, county, or some other political subdivision of the state of Texas. If this is the case then unless a very few/rare conditions exists then you can carry. The conditions to ban legal concealed carry in a public owned park are rare but could be caused by school activities, a professional sporting event, being leased out for an event that will generate 51% of its revenue from the sale of alcohol for on premises consumption, and so on.

...can you back this up with law for me??? I live about 2 blocks from a County-owned park/walking trail...it is not 30.06 posted but there is a sign prohibiting firearms...I know city parks can't ban us but haven't found in the law that a county can't...a friend was there walking at around 11 a.m. and saw one coyote and heard another behind it drooling at his dog...all he had was a short stick...

Texas Penal Code 30.05(f) states that if entry with a handgun is forbidden and the actor has a valid CHL then the licensee has a defense to prosecution, so in essence TPC 30.05 does not apply in this situation. Texas Penal Code 30.06(e) states that it is an exception to the application of TPC30.06 if the property that is posted (by valid sign, written notice, or verbal notice) belongs to, or is leased by, a government entity unless that property is forbidden under TPC 46.03 or 46.035.

In essence TPC30.05 does not apply to CHLs when it comes to banning entry with a concealed handgun, 30.06 is required for that. TPC30.06 does not apply on government property unless it is off limits by law already.

[Kythas]

You say that its a public park so I assume that it is either owned or leased by a city, county, or some other political subdivision of the state of Texas. If this is the case then unless a very few/rare conditions exists then you can carry. The conditions to ban legal concealed carry in a public owned park are rare but could be caused by school activities, a professional sporting event, being leased out for an event that will generate 51% of its revenue from the sale of alcohol for on premises consumption, and so on.

...can you back this up with law for me??? I live about 2 blocks from a County-owned park/walking trail...it is not 30.06 posted but there is a sign prohibiting firearms...I know city parks can't ban us but haven't found in the law that a county can't...a friend was there walking at around 11 a.m. and saw one coyote and heard another behind it drooling at his dog...all he had was a short stick...

Texas Penal Code 30.05(f) states that if entry with a handgun is forbidden and the actor has a valid CHL then the licensee has a defense to prosecution, so in essence TPC 30.05 does not apply in this situation. Texas Penal Code 30.06(e) states that it is an exception to the application of TPC30.06 if the property that is posted (by valid sign, written notice, or verbal notice) belongs to, or is leased by, a government entity unless that property is forbidden under TPC 46.03 or 46.035.

In essence TPC30.05 does not apply to CHLs when it comes to banning entry with a concealed handgun, 30.06 is required for that. TPC30.06 does not apply on government property unless it is off limits by law already.

Not entirely true, but mostly so. If you have a CHL, the CHL is a defense to prosecution under 30.05, but it does not mean 30.05 doesn't apply. You may still be arrested for criminal trespass but would not be convicted. Your CHL would likely be suspended in the time between the arrest and disposition of the case.

This is one of those cases where you'll beat the rap but you won't beat the ride.

[Teamless]

You may still be arrested for criminal trespass but would not be convicted

this doesn't make sense. Basically what you are saying is
If Company X posts a gunbuster sign, but NOT a legally binding 30.06 or 51% sign, then I could be arrested, even though I would beat the rap.

If this is the case, then why have the 30.06 signage at all? You would never need 30.06 signs, as a gunbuster sign would then mean that I am going to be arrested, which is not true.

[mr surveyor]

the generic gunbusters sign does not equal the standard 30.05 sign

[rm9792]

I am not planning on attending this event and am thus not motivated to find out for sure, but I'm curious if "No weapons" equates to "No CHL":

http://www.29-95.com/music/story/summerfest-faq" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Since it takes place in a public park, I'm not sure CHL can be banned but you can bet these things:

Many CHL's will assume it's the case and not carry.

Those intent on commiting crime will carry regardless.

Security will not always understand the law.

Welcome to the group, lot of good advice here. I have a question, wasnt this very clearly covered in class? I am just curious because this is supposed to be a big part of the curriculum and i get concerned when the instructors are letting people go still confused. We are glad you ask rather than go in blind.

[G.A. Heath]

A CHL has a defense to prosecution if they are arrested for crossing a no handguns sign that draws its authority from 30.05 (Which could be a gun busters sign, or a sign that says "Handguns are prohibited on these premises", and such). If you are properly concealing then you have nothing to worry about, if you fail to conceal properly then you and the officer will have a talk. As long as you remain polite and courteous the odds are he will contact his supervisor and/or the appropiate attorney to verify that you have a defense to prosecution and to see if attorney wants to waste time/money on a case that will do nothing. If you are forced to draw your weapon in self defense then you have other, more serious, problems to concern yourself with. Also its a good idea to actually know the law so you can politely "ask" them to "verify what you have been led to believe by the state approved course".

[ScottDLS]

You say that its a public park so I assume that it is either owned or leased by a city, county, or some other political subdivision of the state of Texas. If this is the case then unless a very few/rare conditions exists then you can carry. The conditions to ban legal concealed carry in a public owned park are rare but could be caused by school activities, a professional sporting event, being leased out for an event that will generate 51% of its revenue from the sale of alcohol for on premises consumption, and so on.

...can you back this up with law for me??? I live about 2 blocks from a County-owned park/walking trail...it is not 30.06 posted but there is a sign prohibiting firearms...I know city parks can't ban us but haven't found in the law that a county can't...a friend was there walking at around 11 a.m. and saw one coyote and heard another behind it drooling at his dog...all he had was a short stick...

Texas Penal Code 30.05(f) states that if entry with a handgun is forbidden and the actor has a valid CHL then the licensee has a defense to prosecution, so in essence TPC 30.05 does not apply in this situation. Texas Penal Code 30.06(e) states that it is an exception to the application of TPC30.06 if the property that is posted (by valid sign, written notice, or verbal notice) belongs to, or is leased by, a government entity unless that property is forbidden under TPC 46.03 or 46.035.

In essence TPC30.05 does not apply to CHLs when it comes to banning entry with a concealed handgun, 30.06 is required for that. TPC30.06 does not apply on government property unless it is off limits by law already.

Not entirely true, but mostly so. If you have a CHL, the CHL is a defense to prosecution under 30.05, but it does not mean 30.05 doesn't apply. You may still be arrested for criminal trespass but would not be convicted. Your CHL would likely be suspended in the time between the arrest and disposition of the case.

This is one of those cases where you'll beat the rap but you won't beat the ride.

A CHL is a Defense to Prosecution under 46.02 (all the 46.15 non-applicability reasons are by case law). So theoretically you can "take the ride" for carrying at all (under CHL), anywhere...

So can a Peace Officer (take the ride) while carrying under the authority of being Peace Officer...(another 46.15 provision). Theoretically.

[kjolly]

One of the things I like best and am the most proud of is the efforts CHL people take to stay legal!

[tanker1983]

One of the things I like best and am the most proud of is the efforts CHL people take to stay legal!

You don't see the thugs discussing where they can and can't carry. KUDOS to the good guys, huh?

[speedsix]

You say that its a public park so I assume that it is either owned or leased by a city, county, or some other political subdivision of the state of Texas. If this is the case then unless a very few/rare conditions exists then you can carry. The conditions to ban legal concealed carry in a public owned park are rare but could be caused by school activities, a professional sporting event, being leased out for an event that will generate 51% of its revenue from the sale of alcohol for on premises consumption, and so on.

...can you back this up with law for me??? I live about 2 blocks from a County-owned park/walking trail...it is not 30.06 posted but there is a sign prohibiting firearms...I know city parks can't ban us but haven't found in the law that a county can't...a friend was there walking at around 11 a.m. and saw one coyote and heard another behind it drooling at his dog...all he had was a short stick...

Texas Penal Code 30.05(f) states that if entry with a handgun is forbidden and the actor has a valid CHL then the licensee has a defense to prosecution, so in essence TPC 30.05 does not apply in this situation. Texas Penal Code 30.06(e) states that it is an exception to the application of TPC30.06 if the property that is posted (by valid sign, written notice, or verbal notice) belongs to, or is leased by, a government entity unless that property is forbidden under TPC 46.03 or 46.035.

In essence TPC30.05 does not apply to CHLs when it comes to banning entry with a concealed handgun, 30.06 is required for that. TPC30.06 does not apply on government property unless it is off limits by law already.

...thanks for going through that with me...I guess I'm confused because of the different kinds of parks...this one is not 30.06 posted...just a sign up with a lot of dont's...among which is "no firearms or weapons"...but it's signed by the County...

[sugar land dave]

I seem to remember reading an Attorney General opinion from several years ago. It stated his thoughts that although a municipality could not regulate chl carry in city parks, counties could perhaps regulate chl carry in the county parks. Sorry, I do not have a link handy.

[7RomeoHotel]

a friend was there walking at around 11 a.m. and saw one coyote and heard another behind it drooling at his dog...all he had was a short stick...

He needs to get one of these


(yes, they're for real. I've seen one personally)

[Photoman]

If they find out you're carrying, they will give you verbal notice and you have to disarm or leave. If they don't know you're carrying, then they don't know you're carrying. I don't understand the confusion...

[speedsix]

...the whole idea is not whether or not they see it...they won't...but if they stop and ID or question, can they make you leave (it not being a place they can post 30.06) or is it truly legal to carry in a county park, even though they say you can't on their Mickey Mouse sign...no confusion...