Cities improperly posting 30.06 signs?

[RHenriksen]

Thanks for posting this! I just sent Alice my picture of the Houston Permitting Center 30.06 sign.

I wrote Alice Tripp of TSRA about this recently, suggesting that enforcement be assigned by the next legislature to DPS or Texas Rangers. I specifically mentioned the Fort Worth Zoo. She replied immediately that my email was timely as they were working on that very thing currently. She asked me to get pics of the offending sign, which I will do Sunday AM.

[Fibonacci]

The Lufkin library has a notice containing a reference to section 30.05, which is the statute on trespassing. Isn't it impossible to trespass at a public building? I think there may have been some legal rulings on that.

As a rule, I have not gone any building with any kind of pistol denial warning even when it is not a formal and legally correct 30.06 sign, but I think all properties owners that do this improperly are really infringing on my rights of self defense.

The signs about "unlicensed carrying" are moot if you have a carry license.

[seamusTX]

The Lufkin library has a notice containing a reference to section 30.05, which is the statute on trespassing. Isn't it impossible to trespass at a public building?

It is possible to be charged with trespassing in a public building. A person could enter or hide in the building until after closing hours, enter parts of the building that are not open to the public, or behave in a way that is inappropriate (such as sleeping in a library).

These activities could also result in charges of burglary or disorderly conduct.

Carrying a concealed handgun with a CHL should not result in a 30.05 trespassing charge, but who knows what ignorant or hostile police officers could do? Having a CHL is a defense to prosecution, which is weaker protection than an exception.

- Jim

[RPB]

UPDATE
Burnet County Appraisal District removed their improper signs

They HAD a sign on the door, 3 years ago, and [/u]I mentioned it to the employees, they still had the sign 2 years ago, so I called the County Criminal Prosecutor who said he thinks appraisal districts are Courts because like the restaurant, office supply store etc, it's on the Courthouse square and they have administrative "hearings" there (with real estate appraisers, not Judges)

Last year, I mentioned it to a County Judge who's husband was running for District Judge (both have CHLs and are VERY knowledgeable ) [ I asked the candidate if he had a CHL when he was campaigning, he said yes he and his wife both do ... I then told him about the non-compliant unenforceable sign ...]

Went and paid my House taxes minutes ago, took camera to photo the sign .... doors now have no sign except the hours they are open and one pointing to envelopes and drop box for after hours payments. No such signs inside either.

I liberated my County/City from the expense of a potential suit for violating civil rights.

I think that County Judge is contemplating running for State Legislature now .... maybe. maybe not
http://www.burnetcountytexas.org/defaul ... ountyjudge" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://governor.state.tx.us/news/appointment/12039/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.highlandernews.com/news_arti ... le_id=1152" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Schwertner announced Tuesday he intends to seek the Republican nomination in the 2012 Texas State Senate District 5 race to replace Sen Steve Ogden, who announced his retirement.

Supporters and some Republican party officials have urged Klaeger to run for the state House position since Schwertner announced his decision, Klaeger acknowledged.

http://dailytrib.com/all-other/11101-kl ... ate-house-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Klaeger
--------------------

I updated the entry on Texas3006.com just now too

[RHenriksen]

Good work, RPB!

[41Garand]

City of Webster
Civic Center
311 Pennsylvania Ave.
Webster, TX 77598

Has the 30-06 Signs on all entrances.

http://www.cityofwebster.com/index.aspx?NID=547" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RPB]

City of Webster
Civic Center
311 Pennsylvania Ave.
Webster, TX 77598

Has the 30-06 Signs on all entrances.

http://www.cityofwebster.com/index.aspx?NID=547" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Webster has City Ordinance issues they need to address.
Really, all they need to do is pass additional ordinance language excepting/exempting CHLs, and replace the signs.
Easily done by adding a
Sec. 58-84. - Exceptions....(3) This division does not apply to aeans a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code who is carrying a concealed handgun of the type authorized. (or something similar)
Feel free to use/customize the "form letter" viewtopic.php?f=7&t=49133&p=603067&hili ... er#p603067" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's the first thing I found, haven't even looked at Parks etc

http://library.municode.com/index.aspx? ... name=Texas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Webster, Texas, Code of Ordinances >> PART II - CODE OF ORDINANCES >> Chapter 58 - OFFENSES >> ARTICLE III. - WEAPONS >> DIVISION 2. - FIREARMS ON CITY PREMISES >>

DIVISION 2. - FIREARMS ON CITY PREMISES

Sec. 58-81. - Definitions.

Sec. 58-82. - Carrying firearms prohibited.

Sec. 58-83. - Notice.

Sec. 58-84. - Exceptions.

Secs. 58-85—58-110. - Reserved.

Sec. 58-81. - Definitions.

The following words, terms and phrases, when used in this division, shall have the meanings ascribed to them in this section, except where the context clearly indicates a different meaning:

Airgun means an airgun, air pistol, air rifle or any other device using air pressure to propel a projectile through a barrel.

Building means any enclosed structure intended for use or occupation as a habitation or for some purpose of trade, manufacture, ornament or use.

City premises means a building or any portion thereof and real property or any portion thereof owned, leased, occupied or in any manner controlled by the city. However, city premises shall not include parks, driveways, streets, parking lots or other parking areas owned or operated by the city, nor shall such term include sidewalks and walkways which are not adjacent to real property or a building or portion thereof owned, leased, occupied or in any manner controlled by the city and used as a means of ingress and egress.

Enter or entry means the intrusion of the entire body.

Firearm means:

(1)

Any device designed, made or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy generated by an explosion or burning substance or any device readily convertible to that use; or

(2)

An airgun.

Notice means:

(1)

Oral or written communication by the city through its city manager;

(2)

Fencing or any other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders; or

(3)

A sign posted on the premises or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden.

(Ord. No. 96-05, § 1(15-90(a)), 3-19-96)

Cross reference— Definitions generally, § 1-2.

Sec. 58-82. - Carrying firearms prohibited.

Except as otherwise provided in this division, a person carrying a firearm, whether the firearm is concealed or unconcealed, may not enter or remain on city premises.

(Ord. No. 96-05, § 1(15-90(b)), 3-19-96)

Sec. 58-83. - Notice.

Notice that (i) entry is forbidden to anyone carrying a firearm not permitted by this division and (ii) anyone found carrying a firearm not permitted by this division on city premises must depart. Notice shall be given at all city premises in which entry to the premises with a firearm is forbidden. Such notice shall be given in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful to carry a firearm on the premises. The sign shall appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height and shall be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public. The notice shall read substantially as follows:

Entry onto these premises while carrying a firearm, whether the firearm is concealed or unconcealed, is prohibited beyond this point. Entry onto these premises while carrying a firearm may subject you to prosecution for criminal trespass under V.T.C.A., Penal Code § 30.05.

(Ord. No. 96-05, § 1(15-90(c)), 3-19-96)

Sec. 58-84. - Exceptions.

Exceptions to enforcement of this division are as follows:

(1)

This division does not apply to a peace officer or a commissioned security officer hired by or under contract with the city and acting within the scope of that employment or to a peace officer of another governmental unit lawfully acting within the scope of that peace officer's duties.

(2)

A person may transport, demonstrate and display a firearm for the purposes of show or sale on city premises in connection with an event approved by the city manager, subject to any terms and conditions which the city manager may require.

(Ord. No. 96-05, § 1(15-90(d)), 3-19-96)

Secs. 58-85—58-110. - Reserved.

[puma guy]

It's probably been discussed and perhaps explained here before how a city can post a 30.06 sign at a city owned building for a gun show. I have attended several before and was allowed after I entered the building to empty my weapon and leave the ammo with the attending officers and have the weapon tie-wrapped open. Today at Pasadena Convention Center which was posted 30.06 (I did not see it when I entered but there was one inside as well). I was asked if I had a gun to which I replied yes and was told I couldn't enter the builing with a loaded weapon. Even though I know it's invalid I was willing to aquiesce and empty my pistol but was told to leave, empty the weapon and return with no ammo, though I could bring the empty weapon in. I protested that the building was owned by the city of Pasadena and the sign was invalid to which she replied no it wasn't. I told her 30.06 doesn't apply to government builings and she asked me if i was p***** off . I have no idea where she was headed with that; I just told her I know the law, but was not going to argue with her and left it at that. I took the pistol back to my truck and informed her I had no weapon when asked and reentered . She definitely was giving me the eye. My daughter didn't hear her asked me if I was mad and she was astounded that it was even asked after I told her. Sorry to go on. Anyway is there something I am missing that allows an exemption to the 30.06 prohibition for gov'mnt to post 30.06 gun shows and has it ever been challenged?

[apostate]

Anyway is there something I am missing that allows an exemption to the 30.06 prohibition for gov'mnt to post 30.06 gun shows and has it ever been challenged?

No.

[C-dub]

Anyway is there something I am missing that allows an exemption to the 30.06 prohibition for gov'mnt to post 30.06 gun shows and has it ever been challenged?

No.

We just need someone willing to challenge it in court.

[speedsix]

...RPB's post gave me an idea...the County Clerk is elected, right? I'm going to find out if the County Clerk of Dallas County really knows how many voter's he's alienating by having a smaller-than-enforceable 30.06 worded signs inside his satellite vehicle registration offices...betcha he hasn't thought of that...I'll start by trying to find out how many CHLs are currently held in Dallas County...


...methinks fear of losing an election may be more effective than fear of a nasty letter from downstate...

[C-dub]

...RPB's post gave me an idea...the County Clerk is elected, right? I'm going to find out if the County Clerk of Dallas County really knows how many voter's he's alienating by having a smaller-than-enforceable 30.06 worded signs inside his satellite vehicle registration offices...betcha he hasn't thought of that...I'll start by trying to find out how many CHLs are currently held in Dallas County...


...methinks fear of losing an election may be more effective than fear of a nasty letter from downstate...

The closest one to me closed earlier this year. I used to carry in there. The one I had to go to instead also has courtrooms in it, I think.

[JKTex]

...RPB's post gave me an idea...the County Clerk is elected, right? I'm going to find out if the County Clerk of Dallas County really knows how many voter's he's alienating by having a smaller-than-enforceable 30.06 worded signs inside his satellite vehicle registration offices...betcha he hasn't thought of that...I'll start by trying to find out how many CHLs are currently held in Dallas County...


...methinks fear of losing an election may be more effective than fear of a nasty letter from downstate...

Who is it alienating? No sign is valid or enforceable so you take care of business and go on with your day as usual.

[JKTex]

Anyway is there something I am missing that allows an exemption to the 30.06 prohibition for gov'mnt to post 30.06 gun shows and has it ever been challenged?

Don't forget that the gun show is privately owned/promoted and they lease the building for the show. I believe that's what's called a game changer. :)

[RPB]

Anyway is there something I am missing that allows an exemption to the 30.06 prohibition for gov'mnt to post 30.06 gun shows and has it ever been challenged?

Don't forget that the gun show is privately owned/promoted and they lease the building for the show. I believe that's what's called a game changer. :)

Charles stated something like that if you own something and lease it to someone else, you can't "lease out more rights than you owned" ... if the city owns property and doesn't have a right to (dig for oil, test nuclear weapons, ban firearms to licensees) neither does the entity that leases it.

One can't convey more than they own.

Otherwise, I could lease a structure on US Army Corps of Engineers property and say bring your guns because I'm leasing it, even though the USACE prohibits guns.

The person leasing it doesn't get more rights than the property owner has.
The private gun show probably doesn't have to give you admittance though if you don't go by their rules, and most have (probably off-duty) hired Police at the door to enforce their rules.