When I buy what is done with info

[OldCannon]

OldCannon - Thanks for your corrections to my post. I'm not a dealer but I have inquired about this very subject from 3 of our local guys...................seems they are not telling me the whole story. They all said they called into NICS.............none mentioned a computer. Glad to know this is an option.

Let me get this straight.......you said:

2) 4473 is retained by FFL business owner for 20 years (this is why I charge a fee, in fact, otherwise I'd do it for free, but one of these days, storing and securing all those 4473 is gonna cost me real money).

To whom do you charge a fee for storing 4473 forms?

If I need to archive files, I could use a resource like Iron Mountain or some such place for offsite storage. For now, a locked file cabinet here works just fine

3) Multiple Transaction Forms apply to long guns as well in states bordering Mexico due to new regulations.

So your saying that all multiple transactions must be reported by Texas gun dealers.......even long guns? Please tell us more on this matter with source references to the regulations.

Thanks!

Here's a recent article about it as it churns through the courts: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/20 ... er-states/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And, of course, ATF's darling justification: http://atf.gov/firearms/industry/051711 ... rifles.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BTW: If you're thinking about being an FFL, you should read this page at least weekly: http://atf.gov/firearms/industry/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Heartland Patriot]

Okay, let me get some clarification on this one thing. Is it true or not true that, if you have your CHL, the NICS check does NOT have to be accomplished? I understand that the form still gets filled out, but then, as pointed out above, it just goes on file to fulfill the requirements. Is my question accurate?

[OldCannon]

Okay, let me get some clarification on this one thing. Is it true or not true that, if you have your CHL, the NICS check does NOT have to be accomplished? I understand that the form still gets filled out, but then, as pointed out above, it just goes on file to fulfill the requirements. Is my question accurate?

Correct; The ATF has agreed that a current TX CHL meets the requirements for a background check. Your CHL number and expiration date go on the 4473 form and you're done! (Even an active police officer has to have a background check unless they also have a CHL! )

[Heartland Patriot]

Okay, let me get some clarification on this one thing. Is it true or not true that, if you have your CHL, the NICS check does NOT have to be accomplished? I understand that the form still gets filled out, but then, as pointed out above, it just goes on file to fulfill the requirements. Is my question accurate?

Correct; The ATF has agreed that a current TX CHL meets the requirements for a background check. Your CHL number and expiration date go on the 4473 form and you're done! (Even an active police officer has to have a background check unless they also have a CHL! )

Thank you for the prompt reply. Just another good reason to have a CHL (even if its not the primary reason).

[sugar land dave]

Want to know the truth? The government is secretly compiling a huge database with all of our sensitive information. They know what guns you own, how many guns you own, and where you live. On 12-21-12 they will send men in black suits to your house to confiscate your weapons. If you do not comply, you will mysteriously disappear.

Oh MAN!!!

Next you'll be telling everyone about the chips they implant in all newborns now...

Uh-oh, someone's beating on my door and I suddenly have a headache.

(We REALLY need a Tin Hat smilie)

No problem, happy to help!

[alpmc]

OldCannon - I'm really sorry to ask again but I seem to be having a problem conveying my questions in a manner in which they are understood. Let me try again. Please bare with me.

You first stated..............

2) 4473 is retained by FFL business owner for 20 years (this is why I charge a fee, in fact, otherwise I'd do it for free, but one of these days, storing and securing all those 4473 is gonna cost me real money).

From your statement that I highlighted in red, I gathered that you were charging.........someone......for storage fees of the 4473 transaction forms but I was not sure who was being charged so I asked...........

To whom do you charge a fee for storing 4473 forms?

You replied.......

If I need to archive files, I could use a resource like Iron Mountain or some such place for offsite storage. For now, a locked file cabinet here works just fine.

OK, you must have misunderstood the question, sorry....my fault. Since you first stated that you DO charge storage fees for the 4473 forms, and then you stated that you use a locked file cabinet at your business for the storage of the 4473 forms.

Who is getting charged with the storage fees of the 4473 forms in your locked cabinet? The ATF? Your customers?

Again, I'm sorry to be asking this next question again but I need some clarity. Please bare with me here.

In your first correctional post you stated..........

3) Multiple Transaction Forms apply to long guns as well in states bordering Mexico due to new regulations.

Based on your wording, I interpreted this to mean that due to new regulations (on the books) that Multiple Transaction Forms apply to all long guns sold in states bordering Mexico. I had not heard about this and was interested to know when this had come into effect.

So I responded by asking............

So your saying that all multiple transactions must be reported by Texas gun dealers.......even long guns? Please tell us more on this matter with source references to the regulations.

Thanks!

You provided some links. Thanks. However, while reading the first of the provided links I learned that your original statement is just a current proposal by the ATF and is not an actual law. The second link was the ATF's justification for the proposal. I'm not interested in an FFL so I only scanned the third link.

So here's my revised question....

As of today's date, do you, as a Texas dealer, have to file a Multiple Transaction form to the ATF and local Law Enforcement when more than two long guns, despite their type, are purchased at the same time?

If your answer is yes...........please provide a link to the actual law.

Thanks for your patience and help. I appreciate it!

[OldCannon]

OK, you must have misunderstood the question, sorry....my fault. Since you first stated that you DO charge storage fees for the 4473 forms, and then you stated that you use a locked file cabinet at your business for the storage of the 4473 forms.

Ah, all FFLs charge a fee for transfers(often between $25-$50). It includes operational costs of doing business, PART of which might necessarily involve storage fees. So, no, I'm not saying I charge a fee _because_ I have to pay somebody else to store. I have monthly costs for insurance, security system, phones, internet, etc. Based on the number of transfers I do a month right now, my wife says I should be charging $140 per transfer so I'll at least break even

As of today's date, do you, as a Texas dealer, have to file a Multiple Transaction form to the ATF and local Law Enforcement when more than two long guns, despite their type, are purchased at the same time?

Not quite "despite their type" -- has to be higher than .22 cal (i.e., .223, etc), semi-auto, detachable magazine. That was in the link I provided.

So if you're buying 5 bolt action rifles, there's no additional reporting.

If your answer is yes...........please provide a link to the actual law.

It was in the relevant ATF links and guidelines I provided earlier. If you're looking for some kind of congressional law, you won't find it. It's the ATF. What they say is law. Therein lies the problem. They can't get congress to do things, so they do it themselves. Just like the EPA, etc. I suppose you could say I could tell the ATF to get stuffed, but there would go my FFL and the massive investment I've made. So, for me and about 8700 other FFLs, if you buy more than one AR-15, the ATF is gonna hear about it.

[alpmc]

OldCannon - Thank you very much, you have been very helpful. I did ask a local dealer this morning and I finally found the answer to my questions on multiple long gun purchases. The proposal (from your link) became an official BATF ruling on August 14th, 2011 and a form 3310, I believe, must be filed on multiple long gun sales when said guns are semi-automatic, caliber greater than a .22, and have detachable magazines. This is for states bordering Mexico. Just like you said!

My problem is that I could not find any supporting evidence that the proposal had actually been fully and officially implemented by the ATF.......now I know.

On the other matter, I was not asking at all about transfer fees. You may not be understanding me or just avoiding the question.

You have been very helpful and patient and I appreciate it. But since I lack the ability to communicate my inquiry to you online, I will just stop.

Thanks again.

[Carry-a-Kimber]

I think what OldCannon was trying to say is that he will eventually have to pay someone to store all of the paperwork assosiated with being an FFL, therefore; he charges people a fee to handle the transfer of firearms.

[OldCannon]

I think what OldCannon was trying to say is that he will eventually have to pay someone to store all of the paperwork assosiated with being an FFL, therefore; he charges people a fee to handle the transfer of firearms.

Right. If there was no _business_ cost associated with a transfer, I wouldn't charge for it. I'm responsible for the A&D logs and the 4473's for a VERY long time, and that's definitely a business cost.

I guess I'm not understanding the real question, but I have a feeling my initial reply created more confusion than answers I would _never_ avoid a question though. Why should I?