Carry No More

[alphonso]

I carry, and do not intend to stop.

However, the OP has a good point. The maze of laws and the vagaries of any hypothetical prosecution are frightening.

The dangers of not carrying and being "at risk", must be carefully weighed against the dangers of the possibility of using a firearm for SD and getting caught up in "the legal machine".

Just saying...

[Shinesintx]

I came to the realization this morning that before I had my CHL I was only afraid of BG's. But now, after reading up on the perils of legal concealed carry, I realize that I am more afraid of my own government (police, prosecutors, judges) than I am of armed criminals. So I will not be carrying any longer. I will keep my guns for home protection but that is as far as they will go. I will also keep my NRA membership so that maybe someday the BG's will be the only fear a legal gun owner has. Good luck to all.

The OP joined a few weeks ago...could be trolling. Or, he just got skeered...I can see that happening. Best of luck to the OP.

[speedsix]

...sad...

[The Annoyed Man]

The whole idea of concealed carry is that you can dispel fear, not add to it. If you were afraid enough of what's out there to get a CHL so you could carry in the first place, and now your fear of the consequences of CHL keeps you from carrying, then what good is a life lived in fear? I don't mean to be disrespectful at all, but I note that all of your posts are limited to two threads: one having to do with the legality of carrying on COE property (where it is illegal); and the other having to do with the legality of carrying on a school campus (where it is completely legal as long as you stay outside of the buildings). I would have to say that you are overreacting, as the vast majority of places that you would carry are completely legal for you to do so.

Concealed is concealed. How is anybody to know that you're even carrying a gun—LEOs included—until you actually draw the thing in self-defense? And, have you also lost sight of the fact that this is Texas, and while you will most likely have to hire an attorney if you ever have to use your gun in self-defense, the odds are way in your favor that you'll be no-billed..........so long as you obeyed the law.

The decision to not carry is yours, and yours alone to make. But it seems to me........again, with all due respect.......that you're way WAY overreacting. The real risk isn't that your government is going to squash you for having a CHL and carrying a gun. The real risk is whether or not you believe enough in yourself to know that you will act appropriately in a given situation. If you are not confident in your own discernment, then maybe it is for the best that you don't carry a firearm. But if you are confident in your own wisdom and discernment, then whatever "the government" thinks of you ought not to be a concern.

That's just my 2¢. If I were you, I would reconsider. If you still choose to head off in that direction, good luck to you sir.

[fickman]

I heard it said that when you get your bachelor's degree you're convinced you know everything. When you get your master's degree, you're convinced you know nothing. When you get a PhD, you know for certain that nobody knows anything. Any time you start down a path of discovery in a new topic, you can be almost paralyzed at learning how many new things you don't know anything about.

I've seen a few posts opining that we have a tendency to overthink things around here and might be doing ourselves a disservice. We dig. We ponder. We extrapolate. We consider. We research.

Every once in a while there's a news story where somebody had to use force and their statements are refreshingly simple and understated. "I thought he was going to kill me, so I shot him right there."

It would make sense if the OP got scared a little by some of the complexity (that is real and accurate) that we unearth. We should have a volunteer start a thread once a week just to remind everybody that the main point of all the noise we generate is to keep "us and ours" alive and safe. That's all we're doing.

Stay safe out there! I hope the OP reconsiders.

[couzin]

The decision to not carry a weapon when legally available as an option carries just as much responsibility as a decision to carry a weapon! I wish Prideandjoy54 the best and I am sure it was a considered decision.

[G26ster]

i can't speak for the OP, but he has a point. What are the odds of the CHL being attacked outside the home, vs. the CHL running afoul of the law just by carrying? If I was betting, I'd bet on the latter. Obviously he has read threads on the forum dealing with laws of concealed carry. Many of the posts usually contain the phrase "IANAL" meaning the layman's opinion of the post is worth what the OP paid for it. He has probably read numerous times, "I don't want to be the test case," or "You may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride." The "ride" may mean you go free, but you've just spent your life savings to do so. He has also probably read of prosecutors, police chiefs, sheriffs, and LEOs that have their "own interpretation" of the law. Everyday on the forum there are questions posted with no clear legal conclusion.

How often and when to carry is a very personal choice. There is no doubt that it stretches from lackadaisical to the intense, depending on the individual. Some carry 24/7, both outside and inside the home, and have weapons stashed throughout the house. Others don't carry at all. Then there are those in the middle somewhere. Personal choice. Life is full of risks, and one person's decision when and where to be armed does not fit in with every other person's decision.

The OP stated he would have defensive weapons at home. When we read almost on a daily basis that a BG was shot breaking into a home or business, he's got that covered. Outside the home, we preach d-escalation, run to get away if you can, and only as an absolute last resort to use your weapon. How often do we read about the CHL outside the home having to use his weapon? Infrequently I think. Perhaps in a high risk business (stop & rob, jewelry store, etc.), but not just out and about. Can it happen just out and about? Sure it can, and it does, but then the odds of it happening come into play again. I'm old, slow and dated, but I recall that even in a combat zone everyone was not armed 24/7. I think the OP is simply weighing his risks and believes the risk of running afoul of the law, whether by his own error, or by vagueness in the law or the loose interpretation of some in authority, is greater than the risk of being attacked outside his home. I wish the OP the best with his decision(s).

[rcasady]

PrideAndJoy54
I suspect (hope) most of us, when first carrying get a mental flash of lightning type revelation that :

This is an awesome responsibility, not to be taken lightly

But

That's a good thing.

the last thing i expected was that exact feeling of intense responsibility i questioned alot about myself once i had a firearm on my hip . not to sound to dramatic but it has changed my life probably more than any other single decision ive made simply due to the lifestyle change .
but it was certainly for the better , in fact the decisions i make now due to carrying make it much less likely for me to get in any form of trouble .
i wont disarm for fear of government persecution , actually i may need a bigger gun

[Carry-a-Kimber]

I came to the realization this morning that before I had my CHL I was only afraid of BG's. But now, after reading up on the perils of legal concealed carry, I realize that I am more afraid of my own government (police, prosecutors, judges) than I am of armed criminals. So I will not be carrying any longer. I will keep my guns for home protection but that is as far as they will go. I will also keep my NRA membership so that maybe someday the BG's will be the only fear a legal gun owner has. Good luck to all.

Got any holsters you want to sell?

[Lambda Force]

Some people aren't ready. That's a personal choice they're entitled to make.

[chasfm11]

i can't speak for the OP, but he has a point. What are the odds of the CHL being attacked outside the home, vs. the CHL running afoul of the law just by carrying? If I was betting, I'd bet on the latter. Obviously he has read threads on the forum dealing with laws of concealed carry. Many of the posts usually contain the phrase "IANAL" meaning the layman's opinion of the poster is worth what the OP paid for it. He has probably read numerous times, "I don't want to be the test case," or "You may beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride." The "ride" may mean you go free, but you've just spent your life savings to do so. He has also probably read of prosecutors, police chiefs, sheriffs, and LEOs that have their "own interpretation" of the law. Everyday on the forum there are questions posted with no clear legal conclusion.

How often and when to carry is a very personal choice. There is no doubt that it stretches from lackadaisical to the intense, depending on the individual. Some carry 24/7, both outside and inside the home, and have weapons stashed throughout the house. Others don't carry at all. Then there are those in the middle somewhere. Personal choice. Life is full of risks, and one person's decision when and where to be armed does not fit in with every other person's decision.

The OP stated he would have defensive weapons at home. When we read almost on a daily basis that a BG was shot breaking into a home or business, he's got that covered. Outside the home, we preach d-escalation, run to get away if you can, and only as an absolute last resort to use your weapon. How often do we read about the CHL outside the home having to use his weapon? Infrequently I think. Perhaps in a high risk business (stop & rob, jewelry store, etc.), but not just out and about. Can it happen just out and about? Sure it can, and it does, but then the odds of it happening come into play again. I'm old, slow and dated, but I recall that even in a combat zone everyone was not armed 24/7. I think the OP is simply weighing his risks and believes the risk of running afoul of the law, whether by his own error, or by vagueness in the law or the loose interpretation of some in authority, is greater than the risk of being attacked outside his home. I wish the OP the best with his decision(s).

From someone who had not intention of carrying at all when I got my CHL, I can easily identify with your points. We have an RV and I wanted to have a pistol in addition to the shotgun that we had always carried so the CHL made it legal for me to do that. I originally planned for nothing more. Reading this forum, I changed my plan and started carrying occasionally.

I'll go one step further that what you said. In addition to running afoul of the law, I was deathly afraid of an ND. I've been around long guns all of my life but pistols were a completely new thing for me. I was OK as long as I was carrying but initially after making a decision to do it, I found myself in repeated position where I had to disarm - picking up the granddaughter at school, going to the Post Office, etc. I was convinced that I was going to do something stupid like butterfinger a movement, drop it, grab for it on impulse and make it go bang.

What changed my way of thinking was the realization about how fast bad things really can happen and what my options would be without carrying if those bad things did occur. We had a mid-morning, bright sunlight encounter at a truck stop in Mississippi that came out of nowhere. I was able to separate us from it but it easily could have gone another way. I realized that a similar thing could happen at any time and maybe we wouldn't be so lucky the next time.

In many ways, carrying a firearm is like driving a car. There is always the opportunity to have to deal with law enforcement, no matter how carefully you try to obey the law. You can be the most defensive driver around and the stupidity of someone else can put you in a position of being hurt or killed. Good situational awareness is the first way to avoid problems and skills and good split second reactions are needed to deal with a bad situation if one does develop. I decided that driving a car was, in the grander scheme of things, a lot more risky than carrying a weapon all of the time. Unlike driving where I'm in view of everyone else on the road, concealment means that only I know for sure. If I did make a mistake and unintentionally have my gun where I wasn't supposed to, good concealment would mean that I wasn't automatically in trouble as long as I acted immediately upon recognizing the situation. I'm not going to give up driving a car because of the risks and, now, I'm not going to give up carrying a gun because of risks either. It comes down to my wanting to be in control and not be frightened off of what I want to do because of things that could potentially happen.

[DLBConductor]

i can't speak for the OP, but he has a point. What are the odds of the CHL being attacked outside the home, vs. the CHL running afoul of the law just by carrying? If I was betting, I'd bet on the latter. n(s).

I wholeheartedly agree that carrying is an individual choice. Regardless of the reason, if a person does not feel comfortable carrying, I would encourage them not to carry until they do feel comfortable.

My Experience
In my case, four months ago, I had never touched a handgun. I am 68-years-old, retired, and have severe arthritis that makes it difficult for me to physically defend myself. Carrying a handgun provides me with peace of mind that my handgun is available as a last resort in a life or death situation. My wife is very supportive that I carry 24/7 because she "wants to see me come home safe and sound everyday." Her last question before I leave the house each day is, "Do you have your handgun?"

In my personal experience and before I got my CHL, I had two encounters with BGs during the last three years. The police (and I) believe I was specifically "selected" by the BGs because of my age and certain other factors that I prefer to keep private. These two encounters made me realize that I needed to take responsibility for my own safety. After receiving my CHL, I have only had one experience with a BG and it turned out to be a "non-encounter" because of my situational awareness and strong defensive posture, I am convinced that the BG decided to abort and seek an easier victim. The Situational Awareness I learned has proven the be the single most important thing I learned in my CHL class. I believe living in "Condition Yellow" rather than "Condition White" makes me safer than the SA XD 9 that I carry 24/7.

My two most recent contacts with the police have been extremely positive. The first contact was when I was an actual victim before I got my CHL and the second was a traffic stop after receiving my CHL. Both encounters were handled politely and professionally. In my case, the police have been very supportive of me having a CHL and carrying. I am currently enrolled in a Citizen's Police Academy and have learned a lot more things that will help keep me safe.

The BGs
When it comes to BGs, I no longer live in fear. I feel confident about being able to protect myself by my increased situational awareness and (if absolutely necessary) my SA XD9. For my part, I will continue to regularly practice at the range and to develop defensive shooting techniques as an on-going process. As part of my rules of safety, I try to "avoid doing stupid things with stupid people at stupid places at stupid times!"

The Authorities
When it comes to the police, I see them as the "Good Guys." My personal encounters have been extremely positive and I have only the greatest respect and admiration for the officers on our local force. After completing the Citizen's Police Academy, I plan to volunteer for their support activities whenever possible.

My Conclusions
Before I began this journey four months ago, I lived in a bit of apprehension, if not fear, of the BGs, the police, the law, and the judicial system. Now I carry 24/7 with the confidence that if I ever do have to use my firearm, I will do it in such a way that a jury should find my actions both lawful and reasonable. This whole process has made it possible to live a richer, fuller life, free of fear of the BGs, the police, the law, and the judicial system. I only wish I had done it all much earlier.

[Kadelic]

This is an awesome thread. I don't have my plastic yet but the posts being made here are reaffirming for me what a great responsibility it is going to be when I do carry.

I questioned a lot about myself once I had a firearm on my hip . Not to sound too dramatic but it has changed my life probably more than any other single decision I've made simply due to the lifestyle change.

I can already feel myself making this lifestyle change and condition yellow is becoming more and more the norm for me. I am far from feeling paranoid about being exposed to legal pitfalls, in fact, I almost feel more confident about LEO's and the justice system now that I've educated myself as to what the laws actually are. I had never read any legal code before I researched and took the CHL class, and while there is room for interpretation as far as what is "reasonable" and such, for the most part it is pretty clear when deadly force is justified and when it is not. Statistics being what they are, I know that if a BG happens to cross my path I'd rather have my S&W at my side instead of having to count on my good luck or his mercy.

I could quote several other posts but the sentiment is the same throughout: Take responsibility, be safe and feel safe as often as you can, whatever that means to you.

[sugar land dave]

Original Poster,

Responsibility is an important thing. It does not make you important, rather it is the tasks you have been made responsible for that are important. It is a trust you have been granted by someone who themselves have a responsibility to determine that you are qualified and able to perform and bear the necessary burdens of some portion of society. The greater the responsibility, the greater the vetting is that a candidate for a responsible position must pass through.

As a CHL holder you were seen by an instructor licensed by an agency of the State of Texas. If that instructor does not believe you are capable, he does not have to give his approval. He actually has had "eyes on" experience with you and fulfilled his responsibility by determining that in his mind you were capable of meeting the requirements of conceal carry. In Austin, someone in the DPS office investigated your request for license, reviewed all necessary factors, and made a determination in your favor. Each level of government that the DPS person contacted had the responsibility to determine if you were a person qualified. The fact that you have your license in your pocket means that all had an opportunity to declare that they had reservations about you, but none did.

At some point in life, you must trust yourself as others have trusted you.

In William Shakespeare's play, Hamlet's companion Laertes is given advice by his father, Polonius. In modern English it is basically:

Don't tell all you think, or put into action thoughts out of harmony or proportion with the occasion. Be friendly, but not common; don't dull your palm by effusively shaking hands with every chance newcomer. Avoid quarrels if you can, but if they are forced on you, give a good account of yourself. Hear every man's censure (opinion), but express your own ideas to few. Dress well, but not ostentatiously. Neither borrow nor lend. And guarantee yourself against being false to others by setting up the high moral principle of being true to yourself.

In Olde English, the most important part read:

"This above all: to thine own self be true,

And it must follow, as the night the day,

Thou canst not then be false to any man."

Welcome OP, and may you make good decisions and stand bravely when accounting yourself to others.

http://www.whitedovebooks.co.uk/poems/i ... on_51.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[fishfree]

I came to the realization this morning that before I had my CHL I was only afraid of BG's. But now, after reading up on the perils of legal concealed carry, I realize that I am more afraid of my own government (police, prosecutors, judges) than I am of armed criminals. So I will not be carrying any longer. I will keep my guns for home protection but that is as far as they will go. I will also keep my NRA membership so that maybe someday the BG's will be the only fear a legal gun owner has. Good luck to all.

I understand P&J54's sentiments exactly.

This forum and the CHL classes kind of leave me with an unsettled feeling that the laws are purposely written full of traps and gotchas to discourage excessing our right to self-defense. This as opposed to simple incompetence on the part of our legislators and ourselves for putting them in office and letting them stay.

We all know the non-sensical requirements imposed on honest and law abiding citizens. [load your car up with shotguns but don't let a handgun be visible in the pile!]

I just have to keep reminding myself that since I plan to not even expose a handgun in public unless and until it is necessary to save a life then at that point the decision has been made; it is simple and direct. Would I trade my freedom, or my life to save my wife? or brother? sister? You get the drift.

Put that way I don't give a flippin' blank about playing lawyer-IANAL, political correctness or beating my chest about defending the 2A. It is my right, my duty and if evil men punish me it does not change my decision.