Are you required to inform you're CCW?

[Ruark]

I would like to bring up the subject of when you're required to respond to somebody asking if you're CCW, and who is authorized to ask you that in the first place.

1st scenario: You walk into a place of business. There's no 30-06 sign. A security guard sees a slight bulge in your pocket or under your tropical shirt. "Uh, sir? Are you carrying a concealed weapon?" Are you required to answer? If you are CCW, are you committing an offense by saying "no" or just ignoring him?

2nd scenario: a police officer. When can a LEO legally ask if you're carrying? Does he have to be arresting or detaining you (e.g. for a traffic ticket)? Say you're just stepping out of a store, or sitting in a restaurant, can a LEO legally walk over and ask you if you're CCW? And if so, are you required to answer?

[JP171]

you are NOT required to tell the security guard if you are or not and can ignore hime at will, the LEO can ask you and you do have to show him, if he has reason to stop you, not just to satisfy his curiosity. I would figure that most LEO's wouldn't ask unless there was a reason, printing or accidental display or someone else said you had a weapon, if they have reason to stop you then you must give the LEO your CHL and ID no questions asked

[CC Italian]

Authorized? Anybody can ask but only a LEO do you have to answer or tell the truth to.

Scenario 1: No you don't have to answer him and if you say no you can't get in trouble unless he/she is law enforcement(off duty officers could do this as well, say security at a night club is an of duty officer but around here they wear their uniforms). To stop this problem before it occurs you should make sure you can't see it yourself before you leave the house. So problem 1 doesn't even happen.

As for scenario 2: I guess an officer could just walk up to you and ask. Why would he unless you where causing a problem or traffic stop etc. But yes he could even be off duty and identify him/her self as a LEO and present ID if not in uniform and ask you if you have any weapons. If you are carrying you would need to tell the officer you are carrying and present your chl.

All this should have been covered in your chl class or is in the book.

[Jumping Frog]

All that is legally required is to provide a copy of your CHL with your identification when you are armed and required to provide ID.

EDITED CORRECTION:
There is a Texas statute that states you have to identify yourself when arrested, and cannot give a false name/address/DOB when you are lawfully arrested, lawfully detained, or a witness to a crime. (Sec 38.02) There is already ample case law at the federal appellate and SCOTUS level on when you are allowed to be detained, questioned and required to identify yourself.

So for the security guard, ignore him. For an LEO, if he has a legal reason to demand ID, such as reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime, then provide the CHL with the ID.

If he just walks up to you and asks you if you have a gun, you can legally refuse to speak with him if you want to and realize asking if you have a gun is not the same as asking for ID. However, real world practicality being what it is, I'd suggest the smoothest encounter would be a low key and friendly response along the lines of, "Yes, I am both licensed and carrying. Why do you ask, am I showing without be aware of it?"

[CC Italian]

On a side note if you told a security guard or anybody with control over the premises that you are "yes" you have a firearm they could ask you to leave and if you didn't you are breaking the law. That would go under verbal 30.06.

[k6gixx]

On a side note if you told a security guard or anybody with control over the premises that you are "yes" you have a firearm they could ask you to leave and if you didn't you are breaking the law. That would go under verbal 30.06.

Doesn't matter if you tell him yes or no. If a security officer asks you to leave you must do it. Otherwise you are guilty of UCW and will face stiff penalties

[barstoolguru]

no unless its a cop

[Ruark]

Getting a few conflicting responses here..... so can an LEO legally - LEGALLY - ask you if you're CCW if he's not detaining you for some reason? Say you're sitting in a restaurant. A couple of tables away are some state troopers on their lunch break. One of them gets up and walks over to you and asks if you're CCW. Can he do that? If he can't legally, but he does, are you required to answer?

[RSJ]

Getting a few conflicting responses here..... so can an LEO legally - LEGALLY - ask you if you're CCW if he's not detaining you for some reason? Say you're sitting in a restaurant. A couple of tables away are some state troopers on their lunch break. One of them gets up and walks over to you and asks if you're CCW. Can he do that? If he can't legally, but he does, are you required to answer?

It is the best practice to ID yourself as a CHL anytime an officer (in his official capacity) asks you a question. You can always move to suppress illegal searches and seizures after the fact. Altohugh failure to ID apparently lacks a penalty... Also I would choose to NEVER answer a security officer's questions.

I operate as simple as this
LEO= identify when spoken to in official capacity (not a simple hello or wave)
Security, workers, business owners= I won't mention ANY aspect of CHL, even if asked. I will wait for the magic words asking me to leave or informing me CHL is not allowed. Then I will leave, tell friends, and ask them not to return and to give business to 2A friendly businesses.

[JP171]

On a side note if you told a security guard or anybody with control over the premises that you are "yes" you have a firearm they could ask you to leave and if you didn't you are breaking the law. That would go under verbal 30.06.

Doesn't matter if you tell him yes or no. If a security officer asks you to leave you must do it. Otherwise you are guilty of UCW and will face stiff penalties

Your belief is wrong, this would fall under 30:05 and isn't applicable to CHL so you may be guilty of trespass but NOT UCW and not even trespass by a CHL. Also if you are guilty of 30:06 violation it is NOT UCW read these

[Jumping Frog]

Getting a few conflicting responses here..... so can an LEO legally - LEGALLY - ask you if you're CCW if he's not detaining you for some reason? Say you're sitting in a restaurant. A couple of tables away are some state troopers on their lunch break. One of them gets up and walks over to you and asks if you're CCW. Can he do that? If he can't legally, but he does, are you required to answer?

First, an LEO can ask anyone anything at any time. It is no different than any ordinary person in Walmart walking up to you and asking you a question. They are both legal activities. You have no obligation to talk to either the LEO or the Walmart shopper.

However, if the LEO detains you to question you, they must have reasonable articulable suspicion ("RAS") to do so without your consent. If he walked over to you to ask if you are carrying a concealed weapon, he evidently has a suspicion that you are carrying and can probably articulate it -- otherwise, why would he walk over and ask? Since unlicensed carry of a concealed weapon is a crime in Texas, and he evidently has RAS, he can not only detain you, but he can require you to identify yourself.

Since the end-game here is the LEO asking for ID and you being required to produce both ID and CHL, it is simpler to just defuse everything by calmly letting him know that your licensed and you are currently armed.

Note that this would be different in a "Constitutional Carry" state. There, having a firearm on you is not a crime so the officer has no RAS to either detain you or demand identification.

[CC Italian]

Ok JP171 so are you saying that if someone with authority asks you to leave if he knew you where carrying and refused to do so that is not a verbal 30.06 but under 30.05? I just asked a LEO buddy (he is a fire Marshall so he could be wrong being that he doesn't arrest people ever for these two penal codes) and he said verbal notice of no chl allowed is a violation of 30.06 as well as 30.05 if you refuse to leave a premises after being notified verbally.

This is the part he told me for 30.05 in bold

§ 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS. (a) A person commits an
offense if he enters or remains on or in property, including an
aircraft or other vehicle, of another without effective consent or
he enters or remains in a building of another without effective
consent and he:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.

And here for 30.06 in bold
§ 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED
HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of
Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another
without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder
with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed
handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.

If I am wrong please inform me. I am not trying to spread bad info.

Edit: One more thing. He said UCW 46.02 would not apply just like you said to a chl. Only 30.06 and 30.05

[srothstein]

This is one of those questions that really requires reading the law yourself and making up your own mind on some of the gray areas. And I do need to clarify that this answer is based on Texas law and that there may be something in federal law that I am not aware of. This could make a difference because federal officers are not covered by the Texas laws - either to restrict them or to mandate your answer to them.

The first answer is that ANYONE can ask if you are carrying at any time. There is no written requirement to ever answer this question to anyone. There is one implied area, which I will cover in a minute.

You never have to answer any non-LEO anything. They could ask you to leave the property if they want and your refusing to leave would be criminal trespass. I disagree that the clause in 30.05 concerning CHL would protect you. They would not be asking you to leave solely because you are carrying a gun. They are asking you to leave because you did not answer the question, which would be legal.

You do have to identify to a peace officer (Texas peace officer as defined in Article 2.12 of the Code of Criminal Procedure - this does not include federal officers) or magistrate (as defined in Article 2.09 of the CCP - note the inclusion of mayors and city recorders) if he asks. The law says:

Sec. 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

Now, the important part to note in this law is that the magistrate or peace office is not required to have any legal reason for asking for your ID. It says when they demand ID and does not specify further than that.

I will also stipulate that this law no longer has a penalty for violating it, so you might disagree with the requirement to identify.

The other part I want to point out is that this law does not require you to say if you have a gun with you or not, just to show your CHL. Since it only applies when you are carrying, the cop is going to assume you have one then anyway. And that leads me to the implication part I was talking about. Section 411.207 allows an officer to disarm you if you have a CHL. To do this, he must have the authority to get the answer to if you are carrying or not. But the requirement to answer that specific question is not really written into the law. This means it is up to you to decide how to answer the question once you know these laws.

For the final step in really confusing you on this, I thought I would clarify when you are required to identify yourself to a peace officer in Texas. This is important to consider because, in my opinion, it really helps clarify that the section on demanding ID does not apply only when the officer has the legal authority to demand your name.

Section 38.02 of the Penal Code covers when you must tell the officer your name (that is identify yourself). The only time you are required to produce ID (or give your name, date of birth, and home address) is when you are arrested. You can refuse any other time. It is illegal to give a false name if you are a suspect in a crime (detained for investigation) or a witness to a crime, but an answer at all is not required. Incidentally, the Kurtz decision of the Court of Criminal Appeals says that a traffic stop is really an arrest, even if you are let go with a warning next.

So, my personal conclusion after reading these and considering them is that you are required to answer if you are carrying any time a peace officer asks. That may be an official on-duty inquiry, an off-duty officer working security, or any other time. You are not required to answer if you are carrying to anyone else (including magistrates - they cannot disarm you). Anyone is allowed to ask you but the most that can happen is you can be asked to leave and charged with trespass if you don't leave.

[JP171]

On a side note if you told a security guard or anybody with control over the premises that you are "yes" you have a firearm they could ask you to leave and if you didn't you are breaking the law. That would go under verbal 30.06.

Doesn't matter if you tell him yes or no. If a security officer asks you to leave you must do it. Otherwise you are guilty of UCW and will face stiff penalties

Your belief is wrong, this would fall under 30:05 and isn't applicable to CHL so you may be guilty of trespass but NOT UCW and not even trespass by a CHL. Also if you are guilty of 30:06 violation it is NOT UCW read these

ok as I said and SR said, if the renta cop does not know and he asks you to leave it is a 30:05 violation trespass, if he knows you are carrying it could fall under 30:06 but not 30:05 as 30:05 states that if carrying concealed is the only reason then 30:05 does not apply but 30:06 at no time in either event is it ever UCW thats the bad thats being spread. you have the right idea if the s.o. asks you to leave and he is acting in official capacity you have to leave, but also may talk to his client supervisor at any time and have his order for you to leave null and voided. so if a renta cop asks me if I am carrying my answer is umm yea my wallet if he asks spefically about a weapon the answer is no and its none of your business even if I was(there is no law saying you have to tell anyone but a LEO and a renta cop isn't an LEO), if he tells me I have to leave then I ask to see the store/facility manager. if he tells me I cant have a gun there I still ask to see his client supervisor and make a complaint to that person. the ID thing, there is no failure to Identify law here in Texas. if a LEO just out of the blue says some thing like hey whats your name in a seemingly NON official stop as in just a conversation or because I said hello, he is going to get why do you want or need my name, and ,may even get ignored, there is no requirement under the law to Identify your self unless you have been legally stopped or are being investigated for a crime then it is illegal to LIE but not to refuse, if you are a CHL and carrying then you must ID and produce the CHL

[CC Italian]

Got it, thanks.