A "first" when stopped by DPS last night

[sjfcontrol]

A-R
The difference between an aggressive LEO, and an aggressive car salesman is that you can walk away from the salesman.

[talltex]

vehicle vs. home makes all the difference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_v._United_States" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for "fishing" - again, it's a grey area, fine line, whatever euphemism you like.

Police can ASK you any question they want. You may or may not be required to answer, depending on circumstances. You may feel pressured to answer, but as long as the officer is not using undo influence to force you to answer something you're not required to answer, what has the officer done wrong by asking? Honestly, I've seen car salesman much more high-pressured than what I gather from the description of this incident.

Just a couple of observations:

Joe Citizen in that situation, (stopped by LEO, and being asked a multitude of questions), IS going to feel pressured to answer...period ... that's human nature in that situation. He has been stopped and is being detained and questioned by someone who has the authority to lock him up. The officer is NOT going to voluntarily inform the citizen which questions he's not required to answer, and it's unreasonable to assume the average citizen should be well versed enough to know what questions the officer can or cannot legally require him to answer. If anyone besides a LEO walked up to you and started asking you: where have you been, what were you doing, who were you with, how long were you there, where are you going now, etc...you'd say "that's none of your business". What's he done wrong by asking? He is asking for personal information he knows they don't have to tell him, but is counting on the "intimidation factor" and the fear most people have that not "going along" will make him mad and result in them being punished for it. As for high pressured salesmen...well, the customer can say "screw you Bubba" and walk away at any time...try that and see how well that works on the side of the road with an officer.

[A-R]

Y'all are missing my point on the car salesman, but it's not worth explaining/elaborating.

Frankly this whole thread is tiresome and I should have just taken someone's advice and left it.

But I'll just say that I'd rather not live in the world y'all seem to be envisioning when police are so constrained they can't even ASK questions ... if you don't know your rights well enough to know when you do or don't have to answer a question, that's on you.

If the officer had used any more intimidation than just being there in uniform, I would agree with you. If he'd said "you have to answer me, or else" Id be calling for him to lose his badge. But he didn't do that. He asked, the OP answered - no harm no foul.

[velo99]

I like the idea of locking the door and standing at the rear or off road side of my truck. I don't feel comfortable with anyone handling my weapon. When I am out of the locked vehicle I am disarmed. I would ask politely how this condition does not qualify as disarmed ? I would explain to him I don't like anyone handling my weapon anymore than he does. Who is liable in the event he drops and damages it ? Even if he does disarm me he will have to place it back in my possession anyway.

[knljr]

I drive a very nicely kept 1987 Porsche 944 Turbo - it's not my daily driver...it's 25 years old with barely 70k miles on it.

I was driving in the middle of a pack of cars going around 5 or so over on a street with stop lights every quarter to half mile in rush hour type traffic.

At one point I look in my rear view and see this motorcycle cop weaving in and out of the traffic to catch up with me and blinks his lights, so I pull over into a Walgreen's parking lot.

First question he asks me is "What year is it?". :( I play along and when he finally asks me for my ID/insurance and I hand him both my ID and CHL. He proceeds to ask if I was carrying and I was not. He asks when was the last time I got a ticket - I replied at least five years ago. He then asks me another half dozen questions about my car, which I answer politely and he proceeds to go back to his putt-putt and write me a ticket for 5 over. At that point, I was like what the heck - and I told him that I saw him way before he saw me and that I was in the middle of a pack of cars and was keeping up with the traffic to which he replied, "Well, that's what happens when you drive the fast car...".

My sister-in-law is an attorney and I told her the story. Long story short, got off scott-free on that one.

[tornado]

At that point, I was like what the heck - and I told him that I saw him way before he saw me and that I was in the middle of a pack of cars and was keeping up with the traffic to which he replied, "Well, that's what happens when you drive the fast car...".

My sister-in-law is an attorney and I told her the story. Long story short, got off scott-free on that one.

Do cop bikes have video/audio recording like the cars? If he said that knowing he was being recorded...

[VMI77]

I drive a very nicely kept 1987 Porsche 944 Turbo - it's not my daily driver...it's 25 years old with barely 70k miles on it.

I was driving in the middle of a pack of cars going around 5 or so over on a street with stop lights every quarter to half mile in rush hour type traffic.

At one point I look in my rear view and see this motorcycle cop weaving in and out of the traffic to catch up with me and blinks his lights, so I pull over into a Walgreen's parking lot.

First question he asks me is "What year is it?". :( I play along and when he finally asks me for my ID/insurance and I hand him both my ID and CHL. He proceeds to ask if I was carrying and I was not. He asks when was the last time I got a ticket - I replied at least five years ago. He then asks me another half dozen questions about my car, which I answer politely and he proceeds to go back to his putt-putt and write me a ticket for 5 over. At that point, I was like what the heck - and I told him that I saw him way before he saw me and that I was in the middle of a pack of cars and was keeping up with the traffic to which he replied, "Well, that's what happens when you drive the fast car...".

My sister-in-law is an attorney and I told her the story. Long story short, got off scott-free on that one.

My roommate in college had a Jaguar XKE and got stopped for speeding by the Virginia State Police. Like you, he told the officer that he was just moving with the flow of traffic; and the officer responded: some people move with the flow, some people create the flow, and you were creating.

[bizarrenormality]

Your car triggered his Freudian inadequacy issues.

[talltex]

Sometimes, they just want to get a good look at the car...lol. Once I was driving up I-35 to Dallas to deliver a new Plymouth Prowler to a buddy right after they had come out. I was running along at 70 on cruise with the top down just enjoying the ride and came up behind a two DPS troopers driving 55-60 in the left hand passing lane...no one in the right hand lane...and I just went around them on the right. They speeded up and lit me up about 2 miles up the road, right before the exit to a rest area, and I pulled in. I knew they wanted to look at the car, and asked them why they stopped me. One said "well, you failed to properly signal your lane changes when you went around us." I just smiled and said "well, if ya'll hadn't been driving 55 in the passing only lane, I wouldn't have needed to change lanes, would I"? He laughed and I pointed to the car and said "go ahead and get it in it...it's pretty cool". We all laughed and spent about 10 minutes talking about the car and shook hands and left.

[polekitty]

Ok, I read most all of the posts and I have some questions I hope will get answered,

1. Do you have to surrender your CHL if you are carrying concealed in your car ( console, glovebox etc.)and not on your person when pulled over?

2. Do you have to inform the LEO if you are carrying concealed in your car when pulled over if you don't have an CHL?

3. Should you surrender your CHL when pulled over if you are not carrying at all?

[WildBill]

Ok, I read most all of the posts and I have some questions I hope will get answered,

1. Do you have to surrender your CHL if you are carrying concealed in your car ( console, glovebox etc.)and not on your person when pulled over?

2. Do you have to inform the LEO if you are carrying concealed in your car when pulled over if you don't have an CHL?

3. Should you surrender your CHL when pulled over if you are not carrying at all?

IANAL, so these are my layman answers. There are certain legal requirements to display your CHL [license]. Display and surrender have different legal meanings. If your CHL is revoked then you have to surrender it.

1. If the LEO asks for ID, yes you have have a requirement to display your CHL.
2. No. If asked, you have to tell that you are carrying a firearm.
3. It is not required, but many suggest that it's a good idea to display your CHL with your DL, even if not carrying.

[sjfcontrol]

Ok, I read most all of the posts and I have some questions I hope will get answered,

1. Do you have to surrender your CHL if you are carrying concealed in your car ( console, glovebox etc.)and not on your person when pulled over?

2. Do you have to inform the LEO if you are carrying concealed in your car when pulled over if you don't have an CHL?

3. Should you surrender your CHL when pulled over if you are not carrying at all?

IANAL, so these are my layman answers. There are certain legal requirements to display your CHL [license]. Display and surrender have different legal meanings. If your CHL is revoked then you have to surrender it.

1. If the LEO asks for ID, yes you have have a requirement to display your CHL.
2. No. If asked, you have to tell that you are carrying a firearm.
3. It is not required, but many suggest that it's a good idea to display your CHL with your DL, even if not carrying.

Regarding #1, yes there's a legal requirement to show your CHL if asked for ID and you're armed. However, there is no longer any penalty defined if you don't.
Regarding #2 -- Do you have some source for this requirement when carrying under MPA?

[WildBill]

Regarding #2 -- Do you have some source for this requirement when carrying under MPA?

This topic has been debated on the forum and I don't remember any clear ruling on this. It is my opinion that if one has a CHL one is carrying under the authority of CHL laws and not MPA.

[sjfcontrol]

Regarding #2 -- Do you have some source for this requirement when carrying under MPA?

This topic has been debated on the forum and I don't remember any clear ruling on this. It is my opinion that if one has a CHL one is carrying under the authority of CHL laws and not MPA.

That is neither my, nor the OP's point. He wanted to know about carry in a car WITHOUT a CHL. So that would be carry under MPA since the driver would not have a CHL (is unlicensed). It is my understanding that there is no requirement to inform an officer if your armed under MPA.

However, FYI, I also disagree with your "always carrying under CHL" opinion.

[gringo pistolero]

I don't think the answer to #2 changes between MPA and CHL. Either way, that's not a question we're required to answer, nor is it information we're required to volunteer, but we're also not allowed to lie. The trick is making a true statement they can interpret as an answer to their question.

After being disarmed for no good reason, merely because I displayed my CHL as required, I don't plan to renew. Once that happens, I won't automatically be a suspect and I'll have more freedom to sidestep personal questions from nosy strangers.