Intentional police encounters by open carry/ chkpoint refuse

[Brad Mc]

I'm sure most of us have seen some of the videos on YouTube of people open carrying and filming the police encounters. There also many videos of immigration checkpoint refusals. My question to the forum is .. What is your take on this kind of behavior. Do you think it makes matters worse for open carry proponents? The immigration topic is a little different but in both cases, it is U.S citizens excercising their rights.

[baldeagle]

I think the more that LEOs get used to Americans asserting their rights, the better off we'll all be. The Americans so asserting had better be right, however, because if they are breaking the law they will go to jail.

[A-R]

My opinions (and others') are expressed in these threads. Btw, I don't think your thread is a "duplicate" per se (yours is more general), but below threads can get your conversation off to a start.

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=61369&hilit=Markedguardian" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=64464&p=790577&hil ... an#p790577" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[2firfun50]

I'm sure most of us have seen some of the videos on YouTube of people open carrying and filming the police encounters. There also many videos of immigration checkpoint refusals. My question to the forum is .. What is your take on this kind of behavior. Do you think it makes matters worse for open carry proponents? The immigration topic is a little different but in both cases, it is U.S citizens excercising their rights.

In my opinion, any type of behavior which presents the subject as confrontational,in a child like manner, does far more harm than good. To undo a lot of the damage over the years, we must convince the vast majority that we are exceptional citizens. Texas CHL holders do exactly that with the data to prove it. We are well behaved sheep dogs who ( if we individually choose) pose an additional layer of protection from the wolves.

Whenever someone presents themselves as overly aggressive or confrontational, in the eyes of many, we all get painted with a broad brush. Its not good to upset the sheep as the farmer will have no use for you.

Since Texas CHL holders conduct themselves as upsatanding citizens and most sheep never know we're armed, no problem.

[Brad Mc]

Thanks for the links A-R. Alot of good stuff/opinions.

[nightmare69]

This law student knows how to handle being stopped for open carry.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks to this video Officers in alot of open carry states have been informed that they CANNOT approach someone just for open carry.

[RX8er]

This law student knows how to handle being stopped for open carry.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks to this video Officers in alot of open carry states have been informed that they CANNOT approach someone just for open carry.

The only problem I have with this video is that he was "looking for a fight" and that is not good for the OC movement. I agree that we all should be forceful when pushing back on our rights but IMHO, it does no good to go looking for a fight to push an agenda. Amoung the anti crowd, this guy was bashed for wasting the officers time to picking fights to being defiant. On one site, a lady says "see, these gun grabbers are always just looking for a fight and don't listen to LEO. The officer could have been shot so we need to take guns away."

I ask an anti buddy of mine what he thinks of the protests and his comment is always about the redneck, foul mouth, EOTWAWKI, hick talkin', suspender shirtless guys that are unedumacated that he sees on the news. We need more guys in suites with educations talking intelligently about guns and our rights.

[nightmare69]

The only problem I have with this video is that he was "looking for a fight" and that is not good for the OC movement. I agree that we all should be forceful when pushing back on our rights but IMHO, it does no good to go looking for a fight to push an agenda. Amoung the anti crowd, this guy was bashed for wasting the officers time to picking fights to being defiant. On one site, a lady says "see, these gun grabbers are always just looking for a fight and don't listen to LEO. The officer could have been shot so we need to take guns away."

I ask an anti buddy of mine what he thinks of the protests and his comment is always about the redneck, foul mouth, EOTWAWKI, hick talkin', suspender shirtless guys that are unedumacated that he sees on the news. We need more guys in suites with educations talking intelligently about guns and our rights.

He may have not been looking for a confrontation. Most everyone who has a modern cellphone has a video camera and alot of people record interaction with LEOs just for proof. Cops know that they cannot approach someone for a legal activity, but they do it anyway. If I lived in a all white neighborhood and saw a black guy driving down the road and called the cops do you think they would waste their time to stop him?

If cops get a call about someone open carrying then they should just do a drive by, if they see the person walking with a holstered firearm then they have no reason to stop them. Better yet when someone calls 911 and says someone is walking down main street with a holstered gun the dispatcher should inform the caller that its a legal activity and there is nothing they can do about it. The law student was right even though the cop said it was common practice to stop and question him its still illegal.

[Panda]

If they're breaking the law, the cops should arrest them. If not, the police should determine that and move on. Enforce the actual laws instead of abusing their power to promote their personal prejudices. Just because someone is Latino doesn't mean they are an illegal alien. Just because someone is carrying a bible doesnt mean they bomb abortion clinics. Etc.

[TexasGal]

LE should know the law and obey it just as citizens should. However, we see that the media loves fodder for their agenda to make gun owners look like loose cannons. Being insensitive to the current gun climate with these kinds of actions are playing into their hands. I personally do not want these people making public impressions for me.

[jimlongley]

The only problem I have with this video is that he was "looking for a fight" and that is not good for the OC movement. I agree that we all should be forceful when pushing back on our rights but IMHO, it does no good to go looking for a fight to push an agenda. Amoung the anti crowd, this guy was bashed for wasting the officers time to picking fights to being defiant. On one site, a lady says "see, these gun grabbers are always just looking for a fight and don't listen to LEO. The officer could have been shot so we need to take guns away."

I ask an anti buddy of mine what he thinks of the protests and his comment is always about the redneck, foul mouth, EOTWAWKI, hick talkin', suspender shirtless guys that are unedumacated that he sees on the news. We need more guys in suites with educations talking intelligently about guns and our rights.

He may have not been looking for a confrontation. Most everyone who has a modern cellphone has a video camera and alot of people record interaction with LEOs just for proof. Cops know that they cannot approach someone for a legal activity, but they do it anyway. If I lived in a all white neighborhood and saw a black guy driving down the road and called the cops do you think they would waste their time to stop him?

If cops get a call about someone open carrying then they should just do a drive by, if they see the person walking with a holstered firearm then they have no reason to stop them. Better yet when someone calls 911 and says someone is walking down main street with a holstered gun the dispatcher should inform the caller that its a legal activity and there is nothing they can do about it. The law student was right even though the cop said it was common practice to stop and question him its still illegal.

I don't consider myself confrontational, but I keep my smartphone camera ready just in case.

[texanjoker]

He may have not been looking for a confrontation. Most everyone who has a modern cellphone has a video camera and alot of people record interaction with LEOs just for proof. Cops know that they cannot approach someone for a legal activity, but they do it anyway. If I lived in a all white neighborhood and saw a black guy driving down the road and called the cops do you think they would waste their time to stop him?

That is incorrect. An officer can contact anybody they wish, including somebody that is not doing anything wrong. That is a consensual encounter. The person is free to leave at any time.

I believe the people out there trying to be confrontational hurt more then they help. They are the ones that keep trying to egg the leo's on even when they won't play and are just doing their job. I would be curious how much real footage there is out there of these incidents, but when the leo's do the right thing they don't air it as that is against their agenda of drama.

[rotor]

That is incorrect. An officer can contact anybody they wish, including somebody that is not doing anything wrong. That is a consensual encounter. The person is free to leave at any time.

From the video the LEO actually took the gun from the person involved. He kept asking for it back. I don't know if that was a consensual encounter (or even what that means) or not. I probably would have shown id but that is me. This guy will make one heck of a lawyer someday I guess. I thought the officer was very restrained and was being snowed by the smith vs jones legal briefs. Someone made a complaint, the people that took the complaint should have determined if the complaint was about an illegal activity. If open carry is legal in that area the 911 or whoever took the complaint should have told the person such. If the open carry person was acting strange, that would be a legitimate complaint in my mind. Open carry of a pressure cooker might get a complaint now. For all we know that may have been a staged complaint to the police just to produce a video like this. Felt a little sorry for the cop.

[nightmare69]

He may have not been looking for a confrontation. Most everyone who has a modern cellphone has a video camera and alot of people record interaction with LEOs just for proof. Cops know that they cannot approach someone for a legal activity, but they do it anyway. If I lived in a all white neighborhood and saw a black guy driving down the road and called the cops do you think they would waste their time to stop him?

That is incorrect. An officer can contact anybody they wish, including somebody that is not doing anything wrong. That is a consensual encounter. The person is free to leave at any time.

I believe the people out there trying to be confrontational hurt more then they help. They are the ones that keep trying to egg the leo's on even when they won't play and are just doing their job. I would be curious how much real footage there is out there of these incidents, but when the leo's do the right thing they don't air it as that is against their agenda of drama.

That is true but the video I posted was not a consensual encounter, the law student asked a few times if he was free to leave, the LEO would not give him his gun back and let him leave.

[jmra]

He may have not been looking for a confrontation. Most everyone who has a modern cellphone has a video camera and alot of people record interaction with LEOs just for proof. Cops know that they cannot approach someone for a legal activity, but they do it anyway. If I lived in a all white neighborhood and saw a black guy driving down the road and called the cops do you think they would waste their time to stop him?

That is incorrect. An officer can contact anybody they wish, including somebody that is not doing anything wrong. That is a consensual encounter. The person is free to leave at any time.

I believe the people out there trying to be confrontational hurt more then they help. They are the ones that keep trying to egg the leo's on even when they won't play and are just doing their job. I would be curious how much real footage there is out there of these incidents, but when the leo's do the right thing they don't air it as that is against their agenda of drama.

That is true but the video I posted was not a consensual encounter, the law student asked a few times if he was free to leave, the LEO would not give him his gun back and let him leave.

LEO would not give him his gun back and let him leave. At this point it is no longer a consensual encounter. No brainer, the cop was dead wrong.