Buying with a CHL

[Keith B]

So if your CHL was revoked for committing a felony and you didn't return it to them you can still use it to skip the background check and purchase a gun (as a felon)? I didn't realize you could skip the background check, I thought it mostly just allowed you to skip putting down the SS# on the forms.

They will more than likely take your CHL if you are convicted of a felony and not give it back. And if you answer falsely that you are not currently under indictment for a felony, then you have lied anyway.

[jmra]

So if your CHL was revoked for committing a felony and you didn't return it to them you can still use it to skip the background check and purchase a gun (as a felon)? I didn't realize you could skip the background check, I thought it mostly just allowed you to skip putting down the SS# on the forms.

You're talking about a statistical nonevent. Beside the fact that if they have a CHL they already have guns. Unless the guns were confiscated, in which case you can bet the CHL card would also be confiscated. Not an issue in my book.

[jimlongley]

Umm.....Picture on Photocopy of DL & CHL?

That's okay, they have better ones attached to your receipt and transaction number they got from all the CCTV.

Or the one the whole world has from your Facebook page

My Facebook page does NOT have my picture on it.

Funny, I thought it was a pretty good likeness.

And I wish I still looked the way I do in mine.

BTW, the 4473 predates the NICS by decades and is really a whole separate process, even if some of the info on it is called in. I have always thought that it was a back door to registration even if long after the fact, because I'll bet that every page that gets turned in (when a dealer goes out of business) ends up in a database somewhere.

[OldCannon]

So, the upshot of this is: Having one's DL & CHL photocopied (for this purchase) is nothing to be upset about?

So, why are some proclaiming it is?

Thanks!

The problem I have with it is they don't need it. If they don't need it they shouldn't get it.

It's an interesting scenario, because ALL the information that's in your DL (minus the photo) is recorded on the 4473, so it's not like you're protecting much when it comes to data. I used to scan DLs and CHLs and store them on a local encrypted drive, and once it let me help a customer with a previous purchase they had made. However, I don't do it anymore. Some places still do it for internal auditing reasons.

Here's the easy thing to remember: There is no _federal_ law that states your ID must be photocopied. It is not a requirement for the 4473. Some businesses might do it for specific auditing reasons. If you don't like it, refuse. Conversely, they can refuse to sell you a firearm. This complicates matters if you're doing a transfer, because they now hold your gun. At that point, your only recourse is to tell the FFL to return your firearm to the original seller, but be ready to pay their cost to return it to the seller. Obviously, the best way to prevent this mess is to call the receiving FFL _before_ you purchase a firearm and ask them if they photocopy your identification.

[OldCannon]

I thought it mostly just allowed you to skip putting down the SS# on the forms.

You can _always_ skip putting tour SS# on the forms. CHL or not.

Putting your SS# on the forum when you have a CHL just means you've put your SS# on yet another document that you didn't need to.

The CHL replaces the background check.

Yes, if you commit a felony while in possession of a CHL, you could technically buy a gun, but that applies if you don't have CHL too. Remember, an offense that would result in you being blocked on a background check will also result in your CHL being confiscated.

[Abraham]

On a side note: Whenever I fill out some document or other, I leave the SS# number request blank.

Rarely, after I turn in the paper work, someone will inform me that I HAVE to provide my SS#. I inform them if they want my business they can live without it and they do...

"The problem I have with it is they don't need it. If they don't need it they shouldn't get it."

Right you are jmra.

[OldCannon]

Rarely, after I turn in the paper work, someone will inform me that I HAVE to provide my SS#.

It says "Optional" right on the form. If they object, tell them to call the ATF and have them explain what "optional" means

[android]

Rarely, after I turn in the paper work, someone will inform me that I HAVE to provide my SS#.

It says "Optional" right on the form. If they object, tell them to call the ATF and have them explain what "optional" means

The SSN is used as a tie breaker if you have a name and birthday the same as a prohibited person in the NICS database. Since the CHL exempts you from the phone call, there is no need to fill it in.

I see no problem with a photocopy, it allows to FFL to easily prove to ATF auditors that they did in fact verify the information and other that a crappy photo that they could easily get from DPS in an hour if they need it, contains nothing that's not already on the form. As a SW developer, I'm pretty paranoid about information, but this one is not an issue.

[RX8er]

I don't have a need, that I know of, for your copies of you DL/CHL/ID. I guess I should ask other FFls why you make a copy of them and what purpose does it serve? Maybe I should be asking if I can make a copy?!?

The SSN is optional and it even says it on the 4473.

8. Social Security Number (Optional, but will help prevent misidentification)

[jmra]

Rarely, after I turn in the paper work, someone will inform me that I HAVE to provide my SS#.

It says "Optional" right on the form. If they object, tell them to call the ATF and have them explain what "optional" means

The SSN is used as a tie breaker if you have a name and birthday the same as a prohibited person in the NICS database. Since the CHL exempts you from the phone call, there is no need to fill it in.

I see no problem with a photocopy, it allows to FFL to easily prove to ATF auditors that they did in fact verify the information and other that a crappy photo that they could easily get from DPS in an hour if they need it, contains nothing that's not already on the form. As a SW developer, I'm pretty paranoid about information, but this one is not an issue.

The SS# as a tie breaker doesn't work. I speak from first hand personal experience.

[RX8er]

Rarely, after I turn in the paper work, someone will inform me that I HAVE to provide my SS#.

It says "Optional" right on the form. If they object, tell them to call the ATF and have them explain what "optional" means

The SSN is used as a tie breaker if you have a name and birthday the same as a prohibited person in the NICS database. Since the CHL exempts you from the phone call, there is no need to fill it in.

I see no problem with a photocopy, it allows to FFL to easily prove to ATF auditors that they did in fact verify the information and other that a crappy photo that they could easily get from DPS in an hour if they need it, contains nothing that's not already on the form. As a SW developer, I'm pretty paranoid about information, but this one is not an issue.

The SS# as a tie breaker doesn't work. I speak from first hand personal experience.

I've heard this too but don't if it is true. If your name and dob are matched to a possible name in the database, IMHO, you'll go for a further check unless you have and use a UPIN. I have a friend I used to work with who's name is David Smith and he gets trouble all the time. I think he is planning to apply for a UPIN.

[RX8er]

Wrong thread post...

Edited to delete

[sjfcontrol]

So, for instance, someone in our visualization who was killed at age 23 by someone using a gun could possibly be killed at age 24 by a knife. It’s all statistics.

And it's not a graph, it's a "visualization".

[bizarrenormality]

So, the upshot of this is: Having one's DL & CHL photocopied (for this purchase) is nothing to be upset about?

So, why are some proclaiming it is?

Thanks!

I can decide that a stranger feeling my pecs at the renaissance festival is no big deal for me but I don't get to decide that someone doing the same to your daughter without her consent is nothing for her to be upset about. The same principle applies to somebody making photocopies of ID without consent.

[jmra]

Rarely, after I turn in the paper work, someone will inform me that I HAVE to provide my SS#.

It says "Optional" right on the form. If they object, tell them to call the ATF and have them explain what "optional" means

The SSN is used as a tie breaker if you have a name and birthday the same as a prohibited person in the NICS database. Since the CHL exempts you from the phone call, there is no need to fill it in.

I see no problem with a photocopy, it allows to FFL to easily prove to ATF auditors that they did in fact verify the information and other that a crappy photo that they could easily get from DPS in an hour if they need it, contains nothing that's not already on the form. As a SW developer, I'm pretty paranoid about information, but this one is not an issue.

The SS# as a tie breaker doesn't work. I speak from first hand personal experience.

I've heard this too but don't if it is true. If your name and dob are matched to a possible name in the database, IMHO, you'll go for a further check unless you have and use a UPIN. I have a friend I used to work with who's name is David Smith and he gets trouble all the time. I think he is planning to apply for a UPIN.

I was actually denied even tho I included my SS#. Turns out the "agent" overstepped her authority.
I was already in the process of getting my CHL so I didn't pursue other avenues. I did call the number that the FFL calls and spoke to a different agent. He said it was obvious to him that I was fine and not the person that triggered the denial. He also said the agent that had handled the original call was Antigun and prided herself in finding excuses to issue denials.
He tried to get his supervisor to override the other agent but apparently there is paperwork involved that the supervisor wasn't interested in doing.
The agent said I could probably walk to the next table and buy a gun without an issue. He said the way the calls cycle through agents I wouldn't have to worry about getting the same agent for a very long time if ever.