Road Rage

[tobasco]

Saw an incident the other day where a guy in an SUV was driving like a jerk, cut some woman off hard (tires squealing) and then we all came to a stop light. Jerk in front, woman behind, me behind her, same lane. Woman gets out of the car, goes to the window of the jerk, says some words, probably not happy birthday, then bangs her fist twice on the window before returning to the car. Jerk gets out of his SUV, goes back and appears to be trying to get the plate number of the woman. She at the same time is backing up, there is enough room, and driving away because the light went green at that point, probably so he can't get her plates.

So I'm carrying at the time and wondering if someone is going to pull a gun, or if the jerk was going to start attacking the woman, and if they do, should I do anything. The woman was diminutive, the man was average size. My thinking was that it's not up to me to save people from themselves and only if the man started ground pounding the woman or something extreme would I get involved. Thoughts?

[JP171]

be a good boy and dial 911 stay in your car and stay out of it

[tobasco]

I did have the phone out with my finger on the 9 but there is also the meantime if someone starts pumping bullets into the others car or pulls a knife. I don't want to get involved but don't want to drive away while someone is getting killed either. I observed and prepared, and it was enough this time.

Ultimately I didn't call 911 because looked like she was just letting off steam and they'll probably both forget it later.

[stash]

I am still trying to figure out what that woman was thinking.

[alvins]

I guess im just getting lasy. I just let those people who want to drive fast go around. If you start slowing down they will go around. If they want to get infront of you and start brake checking just keep slowing down.They want you to escalate it so you can get blamed.

I really do not understand people who are stupid enough to get out of their car.

[anomie]

I've had people do a sort of reverse pass where they pull off and drive on the shoulder and let me go by, when everyone's doing the speed-limit-ish and I'm not even worried about getting around them (plenty of space between myself and them, I'm just out on a drive around, in no hurry). (I've also read a name for this but I can't for the life of me remember it right now ...)

Having lived in places where I felt like I was the only one who ever bothered to use a turnout on a road up into the mountains, it was kind of refreshing to see that, although I was a little confused the first time it happened. ("What is that guy doing? Oh, now I get it ..." *wave and thumbs up in thanks*)

[jmra]

I've had people do a sort of reverse pass where they pull off and drive on the shoulder and let me go by, when everyone's doing the speed-limit-ish and I'm not even worried about getting around them (plenty of space between myself and them, I'm just out on a drive around, in no hurry). (I've also read a name for this but I can't for the life of me remember it right now ...)

Having lived in places where I felt like I was the only one who ever bothered to use a turnout on a road up into the mountains, it was kind of refreshing to see that, although I was a little confused the first time it happened. ("What is that guy doing? Oh, now I get it ..." *wave and thumbs up in thanks*)

Used to see that a lot in the country. Mostly older folks who won't drive the speed limit. Saw a lot in the hills with loggers who couldn't maintain speed because of the incline.

[texanjoker]

film some video so we can get a good laugh

[E.Marquez]

It is common in Texas, but I have not seen it anywhere else. Kind of nice.

That because it is a prescribed allowable action in the Texas drivers handbook and specifically stated as legal in Texas law
Sec. 545.058. DRIVING ON IMPROVED SHOULDER. (a) An operator may drive on an improved shoulder to the right of the main traveled portion of a roadway if that operation is necessary and may be done safely, but only:
(1) to stop, stand, or park;
(2) to accelerate before entering the main traveled lane of traffic;
(3) to decelerate before making a right turn;
(4) to pass another vehicle that is slowing or stopped on the main traveled portion of the highway, disabled, or preparing to make a left turn;
(5) to allow another vehicle traveling faster to pass;
(6) as permitted or required by an official traffic-control device; or
(7) to avoid a collision.

[Texas_Blaze]

I've had people do a sort of reverse pass where they pull off and drive on the shoulder and let me go by, when everyone's doing the speed-limit-ish and I'm not even worried about getting around them (plenty of space between myself and them, I'm just out on a drive around, in no hurry). (I've also read a name for this but I can't for the life of me remember it right now ...)

Having lived in places where I felt like I was the only one who ever bothered to use a turnout on a road up into the mountains, it was kind of refreshing to see that, although I was a little confused the first time it happened. ("What is that guy doing? Oh, now I get it ..." *wave and thumbs up in thanks*)

it may be nice, but driving on the shoulder could be dangerous, a stalled car could be up ahead and you not notice. See this driving practice out in the country. People even do it at night. I tell the drivers in my house to not drive on the shoulder.

[E.Marquez]

it may be nice, but driving on the shoulder could be dangerous, a stalled car could be up ahead and you not notice. See this driving practice out in the country. People even do it at night. I tell the drivers in my house to not drive on the shoulder.

It is not only nice, considerate, polite, but legal and as safe as any other maneuver one performs while driving on public roads, so long as the same common sense and attention is given to driving on an improved shoulder as one gives to passing on the left, turning right on red, or putting a CD in the head unit while driving.

If one is not capable of seeing an unobstructed path in front of them on the improved shoulder,,, they have no reasonable ability to see an unobstructed path in lane either.. That driver should get off the road immediately

[anomie]

In the cases I remember it was a fully paved shoulder, it was practically a second lane, just not marked for traffic, and they dropped their speed a lot (although did not fully stop)

The thing I find most refreshing about it is people considering others in their actions. My driving stress levels have dropped a *lot* since I moved to Texas, even in traffic (although people still seem to 'drive nicer' out in the country than, say, in and around Austin).

(I've never really road raged, but back in California living in the SF bay area, I've wanted to flip someone the bird more than once ... and didn't, there's really no point. Sometimes it felt like the commute was practically a giant game of chicken)

[gringo pistolero]

(although people still seem to 'drive nicer' out in the country than, say, in and around Austin)

[Charles L. Cotton]

This is a good teaching/learning opportunity. TPC §9.33 allows us to come to the defense of third persons, if the facts as we reasonably believe them to be would allow us to defend ourselves, if we were in that third person's shoes. TPC §9.31(b)(4) (therefore §9.32 also) states that we forfeit the right to self-defense if we provoked the person against whom deadly force was used. The woman certainly provoked the person when she got out of her car and walked up to his, said something to the other driver, then slammed her fist on his car. This act cost her her legal authority to defend herself. When she walked away (abandoned the encounter), she may have regained that authority under TPC §9.31(b)(4)(A) & (B), but a lot of other folks get to make that determination. The legality of coming to her aid would be far from clear, since you saw the events leading up to an attack on the woman.

Chas.