Mcdonald's Robbery

[philip964]

McDonald's like Walmart gets a lot of bad press. I really do not think you can blame McDonald's for this. That is unless you expect every McDonald's to have full time armed security. They do not have no gun signs, so they are OK in my book.

There are bad people in this world.

[03Lightningrocks]

McDonald's like Walmart gets a lot of bad press. I really do not think you can blame McDonald's for this. That is unless you expect every McDonald's to have full time armed security. They do not have no gun signs, so they are OK in my book.

There are bad people in this world.

I missed the post where Micky D's was blamed but I agree with you. There is simply no way in a free society to prevent all bad people from doing what bad people do.

[Carzan]

I keep thinking about this situation and trying to place myself in similar circumstances in my mind. I keep thinking my Makarov with a single stack would pose a problem in a scenario such as this one. And all the guys who are carrying 1911's would have the same issue. There is the chance that if shooting did break out, one would need more than the 8 or 9 shots these single stack designs provide. I realize many carry an extra mag but if all those guys had a weapon and a CHL fired and actually hit two of them, and two of them ran out the door then there is still two BGs with guns and chances are the CHL has emptied that first magazine on the first two guys and maybe an attempted shot or two at a third. So there you sit with an empty gun trying to change magazines as quickly as possible under an intense pressure the likes of which you have never been exposed to, and there are still two BGs with guns who, 1) know exactly who is shooting at them and 2) are nervous and possibly now angry and possibly amped up on something. The whole thing sounds like a lose lose situation once shooting starts. I don't think I would start the firing but I do believe I would try very hard to get my weapon in a ready but hidden position so I could at least get off some rounds if the BG's decided to start getting rid of witnesses!

Maybe I should reconsider carrying my Glock 23!

I really like an Egg McMuffin but Ill stick to the drive through from now on!

[EEllis]

I keep thinking about this situation and trying to place myself in similar circumstances in my mind. I keep thinking my Makarov with a single stack would pose a problem in a scenario such as this one. And all the guys who are carrying 1911's would have the same issue. There is the chance that if shooting did break out, one would need more than the 8 or 9 shots these single stack designs provide. I realize many carry an extra mag but if all those guys had a weapon and a CHL fired and actually hit two of them, and two of them ran out the door then there is still two BGs with guns and chances are the CHL has emptied that first magazine on the first two guys and maybe an attempted shot or two at a third. So there you sit with an empty gun trying to change magazines as quickly as possible under an intense pressure the likes of which you have never been exposed to, and there are still two BGs with guns who, 1) know exactly who is shooting at them and 2) are nervous and possibly now angry and possibly amped up on something. The whole thing sounds like a lose lose situation once shooting starts. I don't think I would start the firing but I do believe I would try very hard to get my weapon in a ready but hidden position so I could at least get off some rounds if the BG's decided to start getting rid of witnesses!

Maybe I should reconsider carrying my Glock 23!

I really like an Egg McMuffin but Ill stick to the drive through from now on!

This isn't a cop movie. The BGs aren't going to be getting shot and stay to fight it out to the last man. And do you think any robbery suspect is going to off a whole MickeyD's? Spree shooter sure, but a robber? If you are not spraying bullets I would bet you could bake one mag last until all the BG's were out the door. The problem is how many bystanders would be killed before that happens.

[Jumping Frog]

I keep thinking about this situation and trying to place myself in similar circumstances in my mind. I keep thinking my Makarov with a single stack would pose a problem in a scenario such as this one. And all the guys who are carrying 1911's would have the same issue. There is the chance that if shooting did break out, one would need more than the 8 or 9 shots these single stack designs provide. I realize many carry an extra mag but if all those guys had a weapon and a CHL fired and actually hit two of them, and two of them ran out the door then there is still two BGs with guns and chances are the CHL has emptied that first magazine on the first two guys and maybe an attempted shot or two at a third. So there you sit with an empty gun trying to change magazines as quickly as possible under an intense pressure the likes of which you have never been exposed to, and there are still two BGs with guns who, 1) know exactly who is shooting at them and 2) are nervous and possibly now angry and possibly amped up on something. The whole thing sounds like a lose lose situation once shooting starts. I don't think I would start the firing but I do believe I would try very hard to get my weapon in a ready but hidden position so I could at least get off some rounds if the BG's decided to start getting rid of witnesses!

Maybe I should reconsider carrying my Glock 23!

I really like an Egg McMuffin but Ill stick to the drive through from now on!

Points out the advantages of carrying a 9mm with a 17 round magazine.

We already know that handgun rounds are generally poor regarding so-called "stopping power", and that shot placement is the most important variable. Therefore, there are generally advantages to carrying more rounds of 9mm compared to 7-8 rounds of .45. I know of a number of respected self defense trainers who recommend 9 mm for that very reason.

Personally, I am carrying a 15+1 M&P .40 everyday. With a spare mag, it is hard to envision needing more than 31 rounds for any reasonable scenario. Actually, I view the spare mag from the "two is one, one is none" perspective and primarily carry it in case of primary magazine malfunction.

[Carzan]

I keep thinking about this situation and trying to place myself in similar circumstances in my mind. I keep thinking my Makarov with a single stack would pose a problem in a scenario such as this one. And all the guys who are carrying 1911's would have the same issue. There is the chance that if shooting did break out, one would need more than the 8 or 9 shots these single stack designs provide. I realize many carry an extra mag but if all those guys had a weapon and a CHL fired and actually hit two of them, and two of them ran out the door then there is still two BGs with guns and chances are the CHL has emptied that first magazine on the first two guys and maybe an attempted shot or two at a third. So there you sit with an empty gun trying to change magazines as quickly as possible under an intense pressure the likes of which you have never been exposed to, and there are still two BGs with guns who, 1) know exactly who is shooting at them and 2) are nervous and possibly now angry and possibly amped up on something. The whole thing sounds like a lose lose situation once shooting starts. I don't think I would start the firing but I do believe I would try very hard to get my weapon in a ready but hidden position so I could at least get off some rounds if the BG's decided to start getting rid of witnesses!

Maybe I should reconsider carrying my Glock 23!

I really like an Egg McMuffin but Ill stick to the drive through from now on!

This isn't a cop movie. The BGs aren't going to be getting shot and stay to fight it out to the last man. And do you think any robbery suspect is going to off a whole MickeyD's? Spree shooter sure, but a robber? If you are not spraying bullets I would bet you could bake one mag last until all the BG's were out the door. The problem is how many bystanders would be killed before that happens.

Would you have thought 6 guys with guns were going to roll into a mickey D's, where you were in the middle of ordering a happy meal for your five year old, and rob EVERYBODY in the place? My point is if these people are desperate enough to rob a busy McDonalds then they are desperate enough to be a very unpredictable sort. I'm quite certain the man who died shielding children from robbers a few months back didn't think it was a movie either! No, I don't think this is a cop movie. But what I do think is that when people are desperate enough, anything is possible.

My main point was that in reality, me nor most people who are carrying don't really stand a chance against six guys with guns if those guys start firing back for any reason. Especially if we are only carrying 8 or 9 rounds! This situation will cause me to re-evaluate my EDC and manage my own personal risk to where I feel comfortable.

[VMI77]

I keep thinking about this situation and trying to place myself in similar circumstances in my mind. I keep thinking my Makarov with a single stack would pose a problem in a scenario such as this one. And all the guys who are carrying 1911's would have the same issue. There is the chance that if shooting did break out, one would need more than the 8 or 9 shots these single stack designs provide. I realize many carry an extra mag but if all those guys had a weapon and a CHL fired and actually hit two of them, and two of them ran out the door then there is still two BGs with guns and chances are the CHL has emptied that first magazine on the first two guys and maybe an attempted shot or two at a third. So there you sit with an empty gun trying to change magazines as quickly as possible under an intense pressure the likes of which you have never been exposed to, and there are still two BGs with guns who, 1) know exactly who is shooting at them and 2) are nervous and possibly now angry and possibly amped up on something. The whole thing sounds like a lose lose situation once shooting starts. I don't think I would start the firing but I do believe I would try very hard to get my weapon in a ready but hidden position so I could at least get off some rounds if the BG's decided to start getting rid of witnesses!

Maybe I should reconsider carrying my Glock 23!

I really like an Egg McMuffin but Ill stick to the drive through from now on!

True and the results are unpredictable. However, I tend to think they're not going to stick around for a gunfight, and are more likely to scurry off in case the police show up. Of course, they could also just be plain crazy, so don't take that as advocating a shootout....I'm not.

[EEllis]

Would you have thought 6 guys with guns were going to roll into a mickey D's, where you were in the middle of ordering a happy meal for your five year old, and rob EVERYBODY in the place? My point is if these people are desperate enough to rob a busy McDonalds then they are desperate enough to be a very unpredictable sort. I'm quite certain the man who died shielding children from robbers a few months back didn't think it was a movie either! No, I don't think this is a cop movie. But what I do think is that when people are desperate enough, anything is possible.

My main point was that in reality, me nor most people who are carrying don't really stand a chance against six guys with guns if those guys start firing back for any reason. Especially if we are only carrying 8 or 9 rounds! This situation will cause me to re-evaluate my EDC and manage my own personal risk to where I feel comfortable.

Do whatever makes you feel comfortable. What I am saying is sure anything and everything is possible but if you don't prepare for what is reasonable or likely then what is the point. I mean they all 6 could be sextuplets because of some fertility drugs their mom took and if you shoot one then they all may go into a suicidal rage and not stoop attacking until you are everyone of them are dead, but that isn't the scenario I'm going to plan for. Heck lets face facts what we do prepare for is pretty dang unlikely in the first place thank god, but what the heck it's not a lot of effort and it provides me some peace of mind to know that if something does happen I'm able to respond. Carry more ammo if you want, I have no problem with those that do. I just think that if it is this situation that you are worrying about then the assumptions about how it would go do and the best response are wrong.

[Cedar Park Dad]

How come no one is asking the important question: why did six people rob a McDonalds? Whats their individual take? $3.75? Its not like they're knocking over Fort Knox or something. Seriously?

[03Lightningrocks]

How come no one is asking the important question: why did six people rob a McDonalds? Whats their individual take? $3.75? Its not like they're knocking over Fort Knox or something. Seriously?

McDonalds is typically full of women, kids and families with kids. Not likely they will receive much resistance in such circumstances. What kind of inconsiderate moron would actually start a fire fight over a couple dollars with so many innocent women and children standing around? I always chuckle at the tough guy talk we often read on these forums and hope in real life situations, nobody is truly that ignorant.

[Cedar Park Dad]

How come no one is asking the important question: why did six people rob a McDonalds? Whats their individual take? $3.75? Its not like they're knocking over Fort Knox or something. Seriously?

McDonalds is typically full of women, kids and families with kids. Not likely they will receive much resistance in such circumstances. What kind of inconsiderate moron would actually start a fire fight over a couple dollars with so many innocent women and children standing around? I always chuckle at the tough guy talk we often read on these forums and hope in real life situations, nobody is truly that ignorant.

In this instance, the argument that if someone had just capped the first guy seems misplaced. Your average McDonalds is not very big. It would be like a squad level gun battle in one big room.

[03Lightningrocks]

How come no one is asking the important question: why did six people rob a McDonalds? Whats their individual take? $3.75? Its not like they're knocking over Fort Knox or something. Seriously?

McDonalds is typically full of women, kids and families with kids. Not likely they will receive much resistance in such circumstances. What kind of inconsiderate moron would actually start a fire fight over a couple dollars with so many innocent women and children standing around? I always chuckle at the tough guy talk we often read on these forums and hope in real life situations, nobody is truly that ignorant.

In this instance, the argument that if someone had just capped the first guy seems misplaced. Your average McDonalds is not very big. It would be like a squad level gun battle in one big room.

Yeah, it would be fairly ridiculous to think you could properly engage the threat. The tactical advantage would weigh strongly in favor of the bad guys. One, they couldn't care less how many kids they cap. Two, you have no idea of how many there actually are and where they are.

John Wayne type bravado aside, lets get real here for a moment. Like I said, it is real easy to talk like a ninja style warrior on an internet forum. Notice we don't have any of the forum police officers telling us to die on our feet rather than give up our wallets.

[Carzan]

Would you have thought 6 guys with guns were going to roll into a mickey D's, where you were in the middle of ordering a happy meal for your five year old, and rob EVERYBODY in the place? My point is if these people are desperate enough to rob a busy McDonalds then they are desperate enough to be a very unpredictable sort. I'm quite certain the man who died shielding children from robbers a few months back didn't think it was a movie either! No, I don't think this is a cop movie. But what I do think is that when people are desperate enough, anything is possible.

My main point was that in reality, me nor most people who are carrying don't really stand a chance against six guys with guns if those guys start firing back for any reason. Especially if we are only carrying 8 or 9 rounds! This situation will cause me to re-evaluate my EDC and manage my own personal risk to where I feel comfortable.

Do whatever makes you feel comfortable. What I am saying is sure anything and everything is possible but if you don't prepare for what is reasonable or likely then what is the point. I mean they all 6 could be sextuplets because of some fertility drugs their mom took and if you shoot one then they all may go into a suicidal rage and not stoop attacking until you are everyone of them are dead, but that isn't the scenario I'm going to plan for. Heck lets face facts what we do prepare for is pretty dang unlikely in the first place thank god, but what the heck it's not a lot of effort and it provides me some peace of mind to know that if something does happen I'm able to respond. Carry more ammo if you want, I have no problem with those that do. I just think that if it is this situation that you are worrying about then the assumptions about how it would go do and the best response are wrong.

So I am confused as to what you are stating would be your best estimate of appropriate action in this scenario? I think ( at least I hope) I have made it clear I would not want to start any shootout however if they began shooting I would want to be prepared to react quickly. And it does make me want to re-evaluate how many rounds my weapon will hold.

Are you stating you would feel comfortable on betting that if you simply shoot one guy, the other five will turn tail and run?

[VMI77]

How come no one is asking the important question: why did six people rob a McDonalds? Whats their individual take? $3.75? Its not like they're knocking over Fort Knox or something. Seriously?

McDonalds is typically full of women, kids and families with kids. Not likely they will receive much resistance in such circumstances. What kind of inconsiderate moron would actually start a fire fight over a couple dollars with so many innocent women and children standing around? I always chuckle at the tough guy talk we often read on these forums and hope in real life situations, nobody is truly that ignorant.

In this instance, the argument that if someone had just capped the first guy seems misplaced. Your average McDonalds is not very big. It would be like a squad level gun battle in one big room.

Yeah, it would be fairly ridiculous to think you could properly engage the threat. The tactical advantage would weigh strongly in favor of the bad guys. One, they couldn't care less how many kids they cap. Two, you have no idea of how many there actually are and where they are.

John Wayne type bravado aside, lets get real here for a moment. Like I said, it is real easy to talk like a ninja style warrior on an internet forum. Notice we don't have any of the forum police officers telling us to die on our feet rather than give up our wallets.

Whenever I'm in a public place, particularly restaurants where I'm likely to be more or less stationary for a significant period of time, I size up the potential for engaging a threat that starts shooting at me or someone else. Unless the place is nearly empty, I hardly ever find a situation where I could take a clear shot without risk of hitting a bystander. You have to think of more than just what is visible; you also have to consider where a round that passes through a door, a wall, or a window might end up. If the place is crowded you're pretty much boxed out of having a clear shot at even a stationary target, much less someone who is moving around.

[03Lightningrocks]

................"abraham"...........

Whenever I'm in a public place, particularly restaurants where I'm likely to be more or less stationary for a significant period of time, I size up the potential for engaging a threat that starts shooting at me or someone else. Unless the place is nearly empty, I hardly ever find a situation where I could take a clear shot without risk of hitting a bystander. You have to think of more than just what is visible; you also have to consider where a round that passes through a door, a wall, or a window might end up. If the place is crowded you're pretty much boxed out of having a clear shot at even a stationary target, much less someone who is moving around.

That is pretty good advice right there. No doubt... any situation with multiple assailants is going to be dicey at best. What you just described is something I completely agree with. My greatest conflict internally has always been, what will I do if I am sitting at a table with my Daughter, son, mother or other loved one and a situation like this develops. To open fire I would be likely drawing fire towards the very people I am trying to protect. I have said to my daughter and SIL a couple times. if you ever see me jump up and run in a different direction, hit the floor and don't follow me. My thinking is that if the worse came to pass, I could at the least draw the fire away from my loved ones. My primary reaction though would be to wait and watch for a tactical advantage while trying to size up the risk of not doing anything more than handing over my wallet and phone. Getting my weapon into a position for quick deployment is and has always been the first plan of action for me in a case like this.