Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton
bulinm wrote:Since he was not wearing a badge, I might have asked for HIS ID.
Whoop, there it is!SewTexas wrote:when I am sure he IS a LEO, then I would show him whatever ID he wants, but not until I am sure he IS a LEO.
A little bit, yes, but those are also activities that I am making the choice to participate in. In cases like this, however, the OP was just sitting in his car in a public parking lot and someone claiming to be a LEO requested his ID.txglock21 wrote:Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see what the big issue is with showing your ID. Do you all have a problem showing your ID when asked cashing a check, verifying your credit card at store, buying beer (for some younger looking folks)? I have to show ID all the time for various things. If asked by a LEO or even a security guard, I have no problem. It's not like you are giving them your SS card/number. Maybe it's just me. YMMV
My 2nd Amendment right is not the only civil right I care about.txglock21 wrote:Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see what the big issue is with showing your ID. Do you all have a problem showing your ID when asked cashing a check, verifying your credit card at store, buying beer (for some younger looking folks)? I have to show ID all the time for various things. If asked by a LEO or even a security guard, I have no problem. It's not like you are giving them your SS card/number. Maybe it's just me. YMMV
Abraham wrote:If the LEO is out of uniform, why not verify the LEO status by politely asking him/her for LEO confirmation, i.e., their I.D.?
Certainly, there are LEO impersonators, mall cop wannabes, security guards, etc. who might demand I.D., but if they can't provide one verifying their LEO status, you can simply go about your business without ever touching your wallet.
If LEO confirmation is provided, even though not arrested, I'd have no problem with providing my I.D., especially if I was involved in justifiable minor dispute with a store employee.
Being cooperative goes a long way in proving one's credibility.
However, I'm not going through the dance of I.D. humiliation because some minimum wage security guard thinks he can swagger around and pretend to be "Boss Hog" at the Dollar Store.
I don't want my previous post to sound like I go around flashing my ID to anyone and everyone who ask to see it, but that I have no problem showing it if there is a legitamate purpose behind the asking, such as the OP just came from a "situation" that the "off duty LEO" was called to investigate. Its not he had just pulled in the parking lot and was checking his email on his phone when some guy ask to see his ID. I do agree that if in doubt of the identity of "LEO" to respectfully ask to see some verification of his authority before showing yours.Claiming to be a leo and in uniform. OP also posted he was a leo so not thinking he is one isnt in this scenario. As posted by several of us even on or off duty doesnt matter since a leo is one 24/7 and he was investigating a reported disturbance. For all we know he responded to a call as an on duty officer.C-dub wrote:A little bit, yes, but those are also activities that I am making the choice to participate in. In cases like this, however, the OP was just sitting in his car in a public parking lot and someone claiming to be a LEO requested his ID.txglock21 wrote:Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see what the big issue is with showing your ID. Do you all have a problem showing your ID when asked cashing a check, verifying your credit card at store, buying beer (for some younger looking folks)? I have to show ID all the time for various things. If asked by a LEO or even a security guard, I have no problem. It's not like you are giving them your SS card/number. Maybe it's just me. YMMV
I'm used to seeing plain clothes or off-duty cops around here with their badge on their belt.JSThane wrote:The short answer is, you can't tell the difference. You can say all you want about posture, attitude, stance, head-on-a-swivel, haircut, Oakley shades, etc., but there's plenty of non-LEO folks with all the above. Visually, without a badge (uniform or plain clothes), one -cannot- tell if someone is a cop. Even the uniform is a iffy proposition; as has been brought up before, fake and wanna be cops have perpetrated dastardly deeds while wearing surplused, second-hand, or imitation uniforms. Some of the copies are quite good.rotor wrote:Perhaps one of our LEOs can tell us how an off duty officer can be identified as being a LEO and not just a security guard. I am assuming that there is no obligation in this case to show ID to a security guard and it appears doubtful from the explanation that even if the security guard was an LEO that the showing of ID was required since the person was not under arrest.
The long answer is, if he's a cop and he's carrying a pistol, he -ought- to have his badge and/or credentials somewhere about his person. Usually, they're both in a pocket somewhere if he's in plainclothes, or in-uniform, he may just have the creds in his wallet with badge on his shirt. In this case, he probably took the badge off and stuck it in his pocket as a nod to his "off-duty / extra-duty" security guard gig, but if he was carrying under the auspices of "I am cop" instead of "I have CHL," he should have had creds and badge -somewhere- on his person.
Practical answer? If you're in doubt, ask to see his badge and/or credentials.
I don't deny LEO's on duty or off can investigate and arrest. I've personal experience with my my LEO friends in years past when they were off duty and arrested people. My main problem with the situation as explained by the OP is the LEO didn't see any activity - just took the word of the manager. No one has asked the question as to how much investigation the LEO did to verify any part of what the manager reported before he confronted the OP. What ever disturbance if any was history at the point the LEO got involved. Using that premise every time a heated discourse takes place with no verification other one person's unverified report an LEO on duty or off should come running to investigate. Remember Las Vegas Costco? I acknowledge it's an extreme comparison, but one person made a false report about a disturbance that no one could verify. I know we like to avoid confrontation and most of us have nothing to hide and feel things go smoother when we cooperate when asked for ID (in situations that are not listed by PC) but, if I was the OP I would refuse , offer him the recording and tell him I am answering no questions. It's a slippery slope when we say just show ID every time an LEO demands. Now before you start in on me I am stating this because of the facts as I know from the OP and I don't think some wart of a manager should have the ability use law enforcement for personal revenge. Maybe the OP needs to sic a lawyer on the manager and company for a false report.texanjoker wrote:Claiming to be a leo and in uniform. OP also posted he was a leo so not thinking he is one isnt in this scenario. As posted by several of us even on or off duty doesnt matter since a leo is one 24/7 and he was investigating a reported disturbance. For all we know he responded to a call as an on duty officer.C-dub wrote:A little bit, yes, but those are also activities that I am making the choice to participate in. In cases like this, however, the OP was just sitting in his car in a public parking lot and someone claiming to be a LEO requested his ID.txglock21 wrote:Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see what the big issue is with showing your ID. Do you all have a problem showing your ID when asked cashing a check, verifying your credit card at store, buying beer (for some younger looking folks)? I have to show ID all the time for various things. If asked by a LEO or even a security guard, I have no problem. It's not like you are giving them your SS card/number. Maybe it's just me. YMMV
But if one really wants to avoid this flash your chl badge
If no uniform or plain clothing with no badge then politely ask for ID and even consider calling 911 since leos know they should have something to prove they are a leo. Also READ what they produce. I have had a security guard flash a badge while i was on duty and when i made him give it to me he was security and not the leo he tried to imersonate. I also had a normal ciitzen do that trying to get out of a ticket. They both went for a rideAbraham wrote:I'll ask again: Assuming no uniform or other observable LEO verification, when is it reasonable to ask for LEO I.D. to avoid Mall Cop posturing?
