Is Open Carry Activism Threatening our CHL rights.

[cb1000rider]

Agreed. Its absolutely peaceful, nonalarming, and in line with time honored traditions of protest.

I agree with 2/3 of this.
The "non-alarming" part gets me.... Look, if you schedule a protest, carry signs, and do it in a place where like the capital where you'd expect to see political speech, some people are going to be "alarmed" at the sight of firearms.

People that do things to intentionally alarm are doing it wrong. It's all that space in between that causes difficulty. And the fact that things that alarm you may or may not alarm me at all.

There certainly are some people that want the in-your-face conflict. And many of them are baiting law enforcement. Law enforcement needs to not take the bait, unless a real law is broken.

[anygunanywhere]

Agreed. Its absolutely peaceful, nonalarming, and in line with time honored traditions of protest.

I agree with 2/3 of this.
The "non-alarming" part gets me.... Look, if you schedule a protest, carry signs, and do it in a place where like the capital where you'd expect to see political speech, some people are going to be "alarmed" at the sight of firearms.

People that do things to intentionally alarm are doing it wrong. It's all that space in between that causes difficulty. And the fact that things that alarm you may or may not alarm me at all.

There certainly are some people that want the in-your-face conflict. And many of them are baiting law enforcement. Law enforcement needs to not take the bait, unless a real law is broken.

No matter what you do, someone somewhere will always be frightened or alarmed at even the tiniest thought of firearms. Some people cannot fathom even being in the same room or even city block where a firearm is present.

The rabid antis including MOST of the so called media know this and use it to their advantsge. Along with this fact, it is the frightened wee wee ninnies that garner all of the attention even when firearms are portrayed in a positive manner.

I am not excusing the OC actors. I do understand what they are trying to do. I do think it can be accomplished through more measured and calculated actions, but to think that it can be done without alarming anyone is naive.

Anygunanywhere

[Cedar Park Dad]

I am not excusing the OC actors. I do understand what they are trying to do. I do think it can be accomplished through more measured and calculated actions, but to think that it can be done without alarming anyone is naive.

Anygunanywhere

I'd proffer alarming people will indeed do something, just as California showed.

[WinoVeritas]

While I count myself pro OC, I do deplore the "in your face" tactics and believe it will and does cause more harm than good. I'm hopeful when legislation is written for OC that it includes a 3rd sign for businesses to use in lieu of the current 51% and 30.06 that allows a CHL to legally enter but not an OC'er. As many others, I fear more 30.06 will appear once OC is made legal if there isn't an alternative for businesses to use.

Whether OC ever passes or not won't affect me as I wouldn't other than where I do now, which is in the field / outback. I mostly CC in an OWB belt holster with un-tucked shirt - concealed OC - and since the new law took affect for incidental exposure, have little concern, albeit I do not flaunt or deliberately expose, remaining very circumspect. This won't change if and when OC is legal.

[Austin83]

I also think that extreme pro OC tactics do more harm than good. I cringe at the sight of gun owners carrying rifles in the open at rallies. There is a way to get your point across, and there is a way to hurt your campaign.

[BuckFlicks]

The problem is that the OCT people are breaking the law. Despite their claims to the contrary, their open carry demonstrations are specifically conducted in a manner calculated to cause alarm, which makes their open carry demonstrations a violation of the law. Their entire point is to get the populace railed up and make the news when those frightened citizens call the police and the media. It absolutely is hurting the cause more than helping.

[nightmare]

The problem is that the OCT people are breaking the law. Despite their claims to the contrary, their open carry demonstrations are specifically conducted in a manner calculated to cause alarm,

Because they're not wearing uniforms?

[myntalfloss]

I don't think the OC demonstrations that I've seen on the news are helping the cause of the average gun owner.

We've spent a lot of time and effort trying to convince the non-gun public that we are reasonable and responsible people and having some Rambo Wannabe toting his AR into a Baskin-Robbins or Walmart just makes me cringe. It's like the bikers that insist that "Loud Pipes Save Lives". For the one person that hears a bike roaring down the road and avoids a collision, there are 10,000 that are just irritated that those idiots are roaring around setting off car alarms and waking babies. In this case, for every one admirer, there's 10,000 folks that are either scared or concerned.

Also, I just don't understand the need. You're giving up the element of surprise, and if you need to carry an AR to feel comfortable walking into your neighborhood Walmart, you need to move out of that neighborhood.

[BuckFlicks]

The problem is that the OCT people are breaking the law. Despite their claims to the contrary, their open carry demonstrations are specifically conducted in a manner calculated to cause alarm,

Because they're not wearing uniforms?

No, because they are carrying in a manner calculated to cause alarm. That's the verbiage of the law. They claim they are not trying to cause alarm, but that is in fact all they are doing.

Edited to correct spelling error and clarify my point.

[Beiruty]

The problem is that the OCT people are breaking the law. Despite their claims to the contrary, their open carry demonstrations are specifically conducted in a manner calculated to cause alarm, which makes their open carry demonstrations a violation of the law. Their entire point is to get the populace railed up and make the news when those frightened citizens call the police and the media. It absolutely is hurting the cause more than helping.

So can you describe when the long firearms are carried NOT in a manner calculated to cause alarm? It seems you are declaring OC of long firearms are not legal in Texas, which is simply not true.

[G.A. Heath]

There was a youtube video somewhere where a gentleman here in Texas Called the PD to let them know he and his party were going to OC long guns. Officers came to his house and he recorded the conversation. I am going to summarize this from a vague memory so please excuse any errors. Essentially the officers stated that they felt he would be in violation of Disorderly Conduct and they would arrest him. He then told them he was doing it to educate the public. The officers then asked how he planned to educate the public to which he responded that when they saw him they would call 911 and the dispatcher could tell them it was legal, which was the reason he called to inform them. I'm not sure how his walk went but his intended manner of "educating the public" depended on causing alarm (911 calls) so I feel he was deserving of a DO charge due to his own admission.

I don't feel all OCers OC to cause 911 calls so that dispatchers can tell people its perfectly legal. But their tactics need to change. OCing long guns is their legal right, but it is causing a problem with lobbying efforts to pass OC. They made OC an issue, now they need to make it a winning issue. I don't care if they get 100% positive feed back from people that talk to them when they are OCing, in fact I don't care what those people think. What I care about is what our legislators/candidates think about passing handgun OC. If OC tactics do not evolve, and soon, they will fail along with OC in 2015 because they refused to Listen to people like Alice Tripp and Charles Cotton.

Burning GLBT folks in effigy may be your first amendment right, but it will not win you any support to defeat a marriage law.

Edit to add: The penal code in relating to disorderly conduct with firearms needs to be dealt with, from what I have heard we can expect to see something in that respect in 2015.

[WinoVeritas]

The problem is that the OCT people are breaking the law. Despite their claims to the contrary, their open carry demonstrations are specifically conducted in a manner calculated to cause alarm, which makes their open carry demonstrations a violation of the law. Their entire point is to get the populace railed up and make the news when those frightened citizens call the police and the media. It absolutely is hurting the cause more than helping.

So can you describe when the long firearms are carried NOT in a manner calculated to cause alarm? It seems you are declaring OC of long firearms are not legal in Texas, which is simply not true.

That's a no brainer - in the field (hunting or plinking) or at the range, and/or vehicular travel between the two - not openly in JIB or Luby's or Chuckie Cheese or Walmart etal. Simply because it's legal to carry a rifle/shotgun in public doesn't mean one should. If these jake legs keep this confrontational stuff up we're going to have new laws restricting long arms rather than OC.

[TexasGal]

Yep. And guess which party will be happy to get voters over on their side to get it done. Are we sure these guys aren't actually on Bloomberg's payroll? He must grin like the Chestshire cat every time it shows up on TV.

[jmra]

The problem is that the OCT people are breaking the law. Despite their claims to the contrary, their open carry demonstrations are specifically conducted in a manner calculated to cause alarm, which makes their open carry demonstrations a violation of the law. Their entire point is to get the populace railed up and make the news when those frightened citizens call the police and the media. It absolutely is hurting the cause more than helping.

So can you describe when the long firearms are carried NOT in a manner calculated to cause alarm? It seems you are declaring OC of long firearms are not legal in Texas, which is simply not true.

That's a no brainer - in the field (hunting or plinking) or at the range, and/or vehicular travel between the two - not openly in JIB or Luby's or Chuckie Cheese or Walmart etal. Simply because it's legal to carry a rifle/shotgun in public doesn't mean one should. If these jake legs keep this confrontational stuff up we're going to have new laws restricting long arms rather than OC.

Unfortunately when these idiots point their ARs at their foot and pull the trigger we all get wounded.

[asbandr]

I think we should be able to open carry because I believe is our right. Would I do it? No. I agree with what others have said before me. I have several friends that aren't antigun but the idea of someone carrying a gun next to them at the store, even church freaks them out. It doesn't have to be someone who hates guns to request a business owner to post a 30.06 sign. It can and most likely will be someone who's just uncomfortable with guns which goes for most women I know who aren't a gun nut like me. They have no experience or training and assume to some degree that the way they would handle a gun is the way we would handle a gun. They have no idea how much training or education on laws and safety we have undergone.
So when too many people start complaining and profits start dropping, the business owner will have to choose between standing up for the 2nd amendment or feeding his family. I'd imagine larger businesses will jump more easily to post in the name of political correctness.
Aside from the risk I feel open carry would put the person open carrying at, this is the greatest area I feel that would affect the majority of carriers whether concealed or open.