Cameron Park Zoo in Waco- posted?

[Keith B]

Let's put the TABC license in this perspective and see what everyone thinks.

Other venues that are not 30.06 or 51%, like convention centers, become 51% because an event coordinator changes it to 51% when they are leasing the venue. Doesn't this happen at gun shows?

I submit that the Cameron Park Zoo is operated by the city of Waco, and since it does not sell alcohol, it is not licensed, and therefore cannot be 51% during their daily operations.

However, the zoological society, which is a private, non-profit supporter of the zoo, occassionally "leases" the venue for fund-raisers which includes the sale of alcohol. So, the society needs a license, and during the event, the venue becomes 51%, but only during these events

While your logic is good, it doesn't match the law. TABC sets the license for the location and it is not a 'part-time' license. Once it is in place the location is under that license at all times, not just when they are having an event. So, that makes the premises off limits at all times. Not good for CHL's, but it's the way it works.

[oohrah]

Unfortunately, the alcohol sales are part-time and infrequent. Tha application of the 51% sign is not right IMHO.

I think I will pursue this with my representative and Senator.

[sugar land dave]

I hate it when any municipal organization tries to subvert legal intent by associating or leasing with someone as a subterfuge to prevent licensed carry. They need a law to disallow any municipal contract or association which would infringe on state preemption regarding right to carry law. A municipal building should not be a no-carry zone for chl unless it is one of the excluded places within state law. Transparent shams and ruses to deny rights are getting rather old in my book. Politicians and lawyers write beautiful words, but if they don't have the backbone to maintain them, they become mansions without paint, nice in the beginning, then shambles later.

Are local or regional TABC officials elected, political selections, or just plain employees? Can we vote someone in or out?

[Keith B]

I hate it when any municipal organization tries to subvert legal intent by associating or leasing with someone as a subterfuge to prevent licensed carry. They need a law to disallow any municipal contract or association which would infringe on state preemption regarding right to carry law. A municipal building should not be a no-carry zone for chl unless it is one of the excluded places within state law. Transparent shams and ruses to deny rights are getting rather old in my book. Politicians and lawyers write beautiful words, but if they don't have the backbone to maintain them, they become mansions without paint, nice in the beginning, then shambles later.

Are local or regional TABC officials elected, political selections, or just plain employees? Can we vote someone in or out?

I don't blame the zoo or the Zoological Society in this case. The issue is the way the law is written. The Zoological Society wants to raise funds and serve alcohol at their functions. The Zoo itself does not carry a liquor license, so the Zoological Society must get it. If they make 51% or more from the sale of alcohol (not donations) then they must declare they are a 51% location and in turn post the sign for the area that they allow the alcohol to be consumed. In this case they allow patrons to take it outside in the zoo areas during special events, so I am sure they listed the whole zoo as the 'premises'. The way the law is written it makes the whole location off-limits for CHL's. It's one of those unintended consequences in the laws.

Best thing is to get the 51% location prohibition removed from TPC 46.035(b)(1) for CHL's and let TPC 46.035(d) take care of the carrying while intoxicated and we would be good to go.

[oohrah]

Keith, how does the zoological society get a license if they do not own the property? The zoo is a municipal park. I thought the license holder and the property owner had to be the same entity?

[Keith B]

Keith, how does the zoological society get a license if they do not own the property? The zoo is a municipal park. I thought the license holder and the property owner had to be the same entity?

Nope. Many places have either a subsidiary company formed or a contracted concessionaire that handle their food and drink services. A couple of examples are the Kimbell Art Museum and Bass Hall in Fort Worth. Kimbell is licensed under a subsidiary called Museum Hospitality, Inc. Bass Hall Performance Hall is Arts Amenities, Inc. Both of these are red licenses because of the amount of alcohol they sell for total revenue for the subsidiary.

Some people try to say they do this just to keep CHL's out, but that is not the reason. Most do this because it separates the liability of the food and drink from the main venue. Also many just don't want to mess with it so have themselves and contract it out to another company or they have a contracted concessionaire company do it. An example of concessionaires are AT&T Stadium who has a company called Legend Hospitality and the Ball Park which has Metroplex Sportservice. They both blue license due to the amount of food vs. alcohol sold.

[Deltaboy]

I go with my family 4-8 Times over the past 6 years,I seen No Signs and never had any issues.

[BSS]

question, even if it is a 51%, aren't they by law supposed to post that for the public to see?

We just got back from CPZ and there was nothing posted and didn't seem like they really cared if you brought in anything....pay your entrance fee and have a nice day.....

[Waco1959]

question, even if it is a 51%, aren't they by law supposed to post that for the public to see?

We just got back from CPZ and there was nothing posted and didn't seem like they really cared if you brought in anything....pay your entrance fee and have a nice day.....

As was perviously mentioned this is where CHL laws and TABC regs get all tangled up. The events involving alcohol are all after normal hours or restricted access and shouldn't affect a CHL visiting during normal hours. By the letter of the regs, the entire zoo should be off limits to CHL all the time and there should be red signs at the entrance. I have been told by someone that attends some of the special events they do have red signs during the events in the areas where alcohol is being served.

I had a TABC employee tell me that this would likely be fixed by by changing the license to blue when it is renewed. It seems that when the TABC issues a license they won't change it until it is renewed. If IIRC, the renewal would be May 2016. If they get the signed fixed I'll renew my membership and start visiting the zoo on a regular basis again.