A disappointing State Fair episode 10-1-09

[Commander]

Mark Davis' position was, pretty weak. His statement of allowing info to be taken because you had paid a fee to enter was amazing.

If this was the case, then you could be required to give your CHL information when you go to the theater to see a movie. You just paid a fee to enter -right? Somehow I don't think this was the intent of the law.

The example I used in my letter to the Fair PR office (which hasn't been answered) was that my CHL gives me the right to carry on pubilc property and the State Fair grounds is public property owned by the City of Dallas. I don't have show my CHL to walk down the public sidewalk anymore than I should to walk on the Fair Grounds. And again, as we all know, taking our information has no benefit on the security of the fair.

[Purplehood]

Taking your information is simply a hindrance designed to discourage you from carrying at the Fair. Period.

It is a ploy that works if you want it to and cannot be legally challenged. If it isn't illegal, it is legal.

[03Lightningrocks]

Taking your information is simply a hindrance designed to discourage you from carrying at the Fair. Period.

It is a ploy that works if you want it to and cannot be legally challenged. If it isn't illegal, it is legal.

[blue]

TEXAS/DPS is NOT allowed to release personal CHL info except to L.E.O.-ITS ILLEGAL.

SO...

MAKE IT ILLEGAL FOR ANYONE/ANY BUSINESS TO --COLLECT-OR- RELEASE-- PERSONAL CHL INFO.


With Very Severe penalties.

ASAP!!!

[tonyh]

Is this not the same thing as profiling? If they are not collecting everyone's info when they enter the Fair how can they collect it from a CHL holder? What is next collecting information on Muslim's as they might be a terrorist. They should either collect everyone's information or no ones.

[gemini]

Taking your information is simply a hindrance designed to discourage you from carrying at the Fair. Period.

I agree.

It is a ploy that works if you want it to and cannot be legally challenged. If it isn't illegal, it is legal.

It can be legally challenged. Not the fact they are asking/taking your personal information. I can ask you,
the next door neighbor can ask you, the business down the street can ask you. Anyone can ask you. The problem is:
denying entry access to a public park, because I refuse to reveal private information to a gate wander, to enter in a log or registry. CHL law has no such requirement. The Local Government Code bars municipalities from enacting such laws, ordinances or conditions.

[erath820]

Gemini,

Thanks for taking a stand on this. I heard this on WBAP this morning and was a little disappointed in the lack of emotion that Mark Davis had. I wondered why they would need this info? Could it be used by law enforcement in the event of something major happening so they would know that you're a good guy? I doubt it. I particularly liked the idea that people have lost firearms and they would need to return it to you if you lost yours. Ha ha. At first I wondered what I might do? And thought maybe I might just give the info, or put the gun back in the truck but...you nailed it in your last post right above this, you said:

It can be legally challenged. Not the fact they are asking/taking your personal information. I can ask you,
the next door neighbor can ask you, the business down the street can ask you. Anyone can ask you. The problem is:
denying entry access to a public park, because I refuse to reveal private information to a gate wander, to enter in a log or registry. CHL law has no such requirement. The Local Government Code bars municipalities from enacting such laws, ordinances or conditions.

Now, if I come across the same situation as you did, I know how I would handle it. Its the embarassment, but primarily the principle. Thanks again for setting a positive example on this. I believe what is right will always prevail and look forward to seeing that play out here.

Thanks again!

[Dudley]

Can they collect information on Muslims who enter the park?

[C-dub]

When I entered from the main parking lot, I guess the eastern lot off Fitzhugh, I had only a minor problem that the LEO straightened out and let me right on in. However, the wanders that day were nearly 50 feet in front of the ticket booths. I was no where near having already purchased a ticket before I needed to explain my situation.

[gemini]

When I entered from the main parking lot, I guess the eastern lot off Fitzhugh, I had only a minor problem that the LEO straightened out and let me right on in. However, the wanders that day were nearly 50 feet in front of the ticket booths. I was no where near having already purchased a ticket before I needed to explain my situation.

The gate I went to was closer to Haskell. On a google map, the closest streets I can find are the corners of
S. Pacific & W. Alley. The wander scanned me about 20' in front of the ticket booth. My wife, and the couple with us proceeded to buy their tickets at the ticket window. I went directly to the DPD officers stand (with the wander) etc etc etc etc THEY got the refunds.

Quote from the original post: The rest of the story: The 3 others in my party had already paid admission and were waiting for my
ordeal to end.

[C-dub]

I just went to the City of Dallas' website and sent the following question to the Mayor, Mayor pro-tem, and all the council members.

Dear *****,
Are you aware that Concealed Handgun Licensees are being required to disclose personal information to Fair Park employees for documentation or are denied access to the Texas State Fair, which is on public property owned by the City of Dallas?
Sincerely,
*****

[gemini]

I just went to the City of Dallas' website and sent the following question to the Mayor, Mayor pro-tem, and all the council members.

Dear *****,
Are you aware that Concealed Handgun Licensees are being required to disclose personal information to Fair Park employees for documentation or are denied access to the Texas State Fair, which is on public property owned by the City of Dallas?
Sincerely,
*****

The response should / could be interesting. Keep us up to date.

[gemini]

My attorney was finally able to contact Steve Ledbetter. Mr. Ledbetter had a very defensive
attitude, and no meaningful dialog or conversation took place. Mr. Ledbetter still refers to the
State Fair of Texas and Fair Park, as a “private entity”. Steve Ledbetter
referred my attorney to State Fair council. They will be contacted tomorrow.
If anyone feels they might be better able to have Steve Ledbetter explain his actions, position, or
that Fair Park is a property of a municipality, his office number is 214-421-8842.


By the way. Here is a link to the City of Dallas Parks Dept. They say Fair Park is a division of
the City of Dallas Parks Dept. Not my words. Theirs.
http://www.dallascityhall.com/FairPark/ ... ation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jim_Macklin]

I would have to study Texas law very closely, but other than sworn LEO, the Kansas CCH law provides criminal penalties for improper disclosure of licensee status and does not authorize such "gate keeper" recording of confidential information.

The post on the forum is informative and I'm sure reduced your stress level. But consider a class action law suit against teh Fair operator and the parties involved.

The Dall PD officer should have known tje law, as should the supervisor on the scooter. They are all parties to the failure to honor your rights as a citizen.

[blue]

Dallas Zoo - no problem
Dallas library (s) - no problem
etc., etc. -no problem

It is Very Strange that Dallas is allowing this to be happening.
(Dallas DOES OWN Fair Park and IS STILL responsible)
ALL of the other Dallas City Services seem to be fairly well managed and consistant year to year, with NONE of the other services harrassing CHL or other groups of citizens. (subcontracted or city employees)

-Exactly what DOCUMENTED problems have CHL 'ers caused at the State Fair. How many and when???
(Bet its Mighty Close to ZERO!!!)

Many Thanks to the OP and others trying to correct this.