How to react to an attack in a crowded mall?

[gigag04]

What a mess if there were other CHL holders who also decided to be heroic, didn't see initially who the bad guy was, but saw you moving thru the crowd, gun in hand.

Or a off duty cop saw you with gun drawn.................

IMO, that handgun is for SELF-protection.

For sure, and this is where I'm leaning. But - would you shy away from ANY protection of another stranger?? Idunno if I can do that. It seems heartless but im not sure - it may be smarter? This whole thing has me more confused than ever on what I wanna do.

[stevie_d_64]

So I guess maybe as an Aggie, and as I break it down the response would be:

1 - run if you can

2 - fight if you have to

Where does flinging a shovel of horse manure fit in?

Kevin

Thats cold blooded man...

After years of being treated like crap everytime I was in ATX in uniform (I was in the corps) I feel great about some band guy getting cav crap on him.

Well, it surely wasn't very manure of him to do that in the first place...



Whats that smell???

[stevie_d_64]

What a mess if there were other CHL holders who also decided to be heroic, didn't see initially who the bad guy was, but saw you moving thru the crowd, gun in hand.

Or a off duty cop saw you with gun drawn.................

IMO, that handgun is for SELF-protection.

For sure, and this is where I'm leaning. But - would you shy away from ANY protection of another stranger?? Idunno if I can do that. It seems heartless but im not sure - it may be smarter? This whole thing has me more confused than ever on what I wanna do.

Guys...

This is a chance you take every single day...

Like some say...You hope you never, ever have to do it...

But that doesn't mean I run with blinders on either...I'm certainly not super-hyped up and thinking everyone I see is a threat, nor do I let the guard down...Its always kept at a happy middle ground...I've learned to live with the amount of stress that level of awareness puts on the mind and body...

You'll never know it either, if you saw me walking around in a mall...In a parking lot...A movie theater...A restaurant...etc etc...

All the places you'd think something could go down at...I've learned to scope out in 30 seconds...And the first thing I look for is the nearest exit...Sounds horrible I know, but heck, if you can exit the scene, all the better...

And if you cannot...Well...Thats another long discussion full of "what if's" and other variables you can plug into the situation till the cows come home...

If you simply look at the precentage of licensees in this state, and of course take into account the consentration in certain areas helps you see that your chance to run into one of us is almost astronomical, but not improbable...

Like I said its a chance you take everyday...

[suXor]

While I an not insensitive to the needs of a stranger in a dire situation, I would not risk my life or my families to help. I am no good to my wife and kids....dead or incapacitated.

However, if I was in a situation where I had a safe advantage on the situation, I woudld consider it. Again, you never know if the BG's you see, are the only BG's involved. Drawing down on one could surface the other 2....

[explr2live]

Dec. 1994, San Antonio, Windsor Park Mall. I was X-mas shopping in the mall with friends and their children and I volunteered to take their child in another direction while his parents were buying his X-mas gifts. I was not a gun owner at this time in my life and I had not heard gun fire before. I was on the lower level of the Mall close to the JCPenney entrance when I heard what sounded to me like wood boards slapping against each other hard, I knew there was some constuction going on in the mall so I thought that some boards must have fallen. Suddenly, all around me people were ducking and running and screaming. I think of it as roaches scrambling when you turn a light on at night. Then police were running and bounding over mall fixtures towards the sound, it was only then that I considered that the noise may be gun fire. I led the boy I had in tow calmly towards and through JCPenney, away from the sound, till I exited the mall. The gun fire was on the upper level of the mall at the mall entrance to Montgomery Ward, just one short mall block away. I learned later that it was teenage kids, one kid had killed another with five shots of a 22 cal. pistol and then the shooter ran through Montgomery Ward till he exited the mall. Windsor Park Mall never fully recovered from that incident and they later closed the mall permanently.

I was shocked because I grew up in that neighborhood and thought of it as safe. I was so hurt and angered that I could no longer feel that way about the place that I grew up in, shootings like that had never occurred in that neighborhood before. I look back and think it funny that this is not the event that made me a gun owner, 9/11 was, but I do wonder how many more events like this it would take to change peoples minds about gun control. I was not a gun control advocate before being a gun owner, I was just asleep to the dangers, not caring what the laws were concerning guns, always assuming that law makers were taking care of us in that way and I didn't need to know about it. Only after 9/11 did I find out otherwise. It's only after you become a gun owner for the first time that you discover the limitations the government places on your rights to defend your own life. I hope this speaks to someone.

[Paladin]

I think my first instinct upon hearing gun shots from an unknown origin would be to hit the ground and yell for everyone else to do the same. Maybe crawl to some cover/concealment. Once you figure out what's going on(who's shooting?/from where?), then you can bug out or fight depending on the situation.

[Alric]

I agree with Paladin. Short-term, get out of the way, even if its just out of sight (but not necessarily good protection, ex: little plastic kiosk things). Then you should have time to better assess the situation and decide what course of action to take, like better cover, fight, or exit.

[longtooth]

+ one more for Paladin. I am old enough to remember him.

[Boma]

Dec. 1994, San Antonio, Windsor Park Mall. I was X-mas shopping in the mall with friends and their children and I volunteered to take their child in another direction while his parents were buying his X-mas gifts. I was not a gun owner at this time in my life and I had not heard gun fire before. I was on the lower level of the Mall close to the JCPenney entrance when I heard what sounded to me like wood boards slapping against each other hard, I knew there was some constuction going on in the mall so I thought that some boards must have fallen. Suddenly, all around me people were ducking and running and screaming. I think of it as roaches scrambling when you turn a light on at night. Then police were running and bounding over mall fixtures towards the sound, it was only then that I considered that the noise may be gun fire. I led the boy I had in tow calmly towards and through JCPenney, away from the sound, till I exited the mall. The gun fire was on the upper level of the mall at the mall entrance to Montgomery Ward, just one short mall block away. I learned later that it was teenage kids, one kid had killed another with five shots of a 22 cal. pistol and then the shooter ran through Montgomery Ward till he exited the mall. Windsor Park Mall never fully recovered from that incident and they later closed the mall permanently.

I was shocked because I grew up in that neighborhood and thought of it as safe. I was so hurt and angered that I could no longer feel that way about the place that I grew up in, shootings like that had never occurred in that neighborhood before. I look back and think it funny that this is not the event that made me a gun owner, 9/11 was, but I do wonder how many more events like this it would take to change peoples minds about gun control. I was not a gun control advocate before being a gun owner, I was just asleep to the dangers, not caring what the laws were concerning guns, always assuming that law makers were taking care of us in that way and I didn't need to know about it. Only after 9/11 did I find out otherwise. It's only after you become a gun owner for the first time that you discover the limitations the government places on your rights to defend your own life. I hope this speaks to someone.

I totally agree with you. I didn't realize how much the government limited our right to defend ourself until I shot and owned my first gun a couple of months ago.

There is a lot of Gun Ignorance in the world.

[sparx]

I totally agree with you. I didn't realize how much the government limited our right to defend ourself until I shot and owned my first gun a couple of months ago.

There is a lot of Gun Ignorance in the world.

Yes, there is, and that ignorance doesn't necessarily apply to NEW or non- gun owners either. I have been a gun owner for most of my life, and used guns well before that, having grown up in a "gun-friendly" family where venison, turkey and dove graced our table most every season.

However, when I met my wife of 18+ years about 20 years ago, who does not hunt (she doesn't object to hunting, and loves venison and wild game, but would rather fish any day), my hobby and interest in rifles and handguns subsided greatly (constant relocations throughout the Midwest with a previous company didn't help matters any), along with my knowledge of what was happening with regards to guns and gun ownership politics.

It wasn't until just a few months ago, when I inherited several of my Dad's guns after his passing that my hobby and interest was rejuvenated and I started paying more attention to the current state of things. I had "slept through" the Clinton ban (it's boring to keep track of what someone you don't like and didn't vote for is doing... BIG mistake), and was more or less completely ignorant as to what was going on with gun and self-defense laws, or noticing our 2A rights being slowly taken away.

I'm glad I eventually received my "wake up call," and although I had always sided with the NRA, was never a member. It wasn't until my interest in getting a CHL (due in part that we suspect with good reason a house next-door to us are drug dealers ... good thing we're only renting and will eventually move!) that I became "enlightened" to what's really going on out there with respect to our nation's gun laws.

I'm now an NRA member (as well as my wife, at her choice), and as of just this week also became a member of TSRA. The CHL is still in the works, as my wife is wanting hers as well and would like to take her CHL class when I take mine, so we've put off taking the class until she's become more comfortable at the range with a handgun of larger caliber than .22 (I’d also like to find a good self-defense semi that will fit this 4'11" person’s tiny hands! ).

Although she'll never be a hunter, she loves to target shoot but has yet never shot anything other than a .22 or pellet gun, but has always said she wouldn't hesitate to use anything I have in a self-defense situation (hopefully that will never happen). In hindsight I just wish I hadn't let my hobby subside in the past, as we would have had a lot of fun and she would already be experienced in handling larger calibers by now. There had been several times she mentioned an interest in learning to shoot my shotgun at clays, and wish I had taken her up on that, but all is not lost as after we get our CHLs I plan to get her a .410 and take her out for a bit of trap/skeet fun.

Anyway, my apologies for rambling off-topic. I concur that there is an awful lot of "Gun Ignorance" amongst our nation's population, which is a pity, but also means that there's still a lot of work to do, with gun and non-gun owners alike.

Oh, BTW, congratulations on your first gun! I'm sure it won't be long before you have another!

[gigag04]

<another resurection :) >

[longtooth]

Not rambling but good conversation. Glad she is ready to take the class. Family affairs are great. All im my house have CHL, just one at a time.

[Diode]

I guess there must be quite a few of us who recieved wake up calls. Mine was a hurricane. When I started look at purchasing a hadgun I kept noticing they all held 10 rounds, I was no way near back up to speed on all the new and different models but I also grew up around firearms and I know size matters...:) Then a nice gentleman at Academy mention the words that will never leave me...."It has the Clinton clip" I went Huh? How could I have totally missed hearing of such nonsense?

Anyway, I'd like to know what started the CHL movement and when it actually happened. If someone feels inclined or hook me up with a link.

jim

[gigag04]

Anyway, I'd like to know what started the CHL movement and when it actually happened. If someone feels inclined or hook me up with a link.

The Luby's incident in Waco:



Luby's massacre
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


On October 16, 1991 in Killeen, Texas a man named George Hennard drove his truck into a Luby's Restaurant, and then opened fire on the restaurant's patrons and staff. He killed 23 people before he killed himself. As a direct result of this massacre, in 1995 Texas lawmakers, led by Suzanna Gratia Hupp (whose parents were both killed in the massacre), passed a law that allowed Texas citizens to obtain a concealed carry handgun permit in part as a reaction against the massacre.



External links

* http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/09/11/l ... ssacre.ap/
* http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/ ... side1.html

[Diode]

Anyway, I'd like to know what started the CHL movement and when it actually happened. If someone feels inclined or hook me up with a link.

The Luby's incident in Waco:



Luby's massacre
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


On October 16, 1991 in Killeen, Texas a man named George Hennard drove his truck into a Luby's Restaurant, and then opened fire on the restaurant's patrons and staff. He killed 23 people before he killed himself. As a direct result of this massacre, in 1995 Texas lawmakers, led by Suzanna Gratia Hupp (whose parents were both killed in the massacre), passed a law that allowed Texas citizens to obtain a concealed carry handgun permit in part as a reaction against the massacre.



External links

* http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/09/11/l ... ssacre.ap/
* http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/ ... side1.html

Thanks I sould have known that!