Friend stopped by DPS and scolded

[shootthesheet]

In the unlikely event I am ever asked for ID by a peace officer and I am not carrying, I will not include the CHL. They can do what they want but they will pay for their ignorance for doing so. I have a great deal of respect for LEOs and especially for a TDPS Trooper. However, I will not allow them to go around ignorant of the law and spread their ignorance. I would not confront the LEO there but I would call his/her leadership to insist the officer be properly trained. I am not out to get LEOs but rather to ensure they don't make a mistake or spread false information. I take it as a responsibility to make sure our servants know exactly how to serve. Everyone makes mistakes and needs to know so they can learn. I don't care if the person is a LEO or politician or preacher or even myself.

[stevie_d_64]

It's almost like the "r" key was broken in the body of that post...

But thats beside the point, being scolded is the least of the issue...I would just go ahead and inform the officer anyway...Regardless if you were carrying at the time or had access to the firearm, or not...

They are going to find out anyway, and if you just think nothing will be said after they find out...I got a buffalo nickle says you'll get an earful regardless of how nice anyone is at the time of that stop...

[Deaf Smith]

While I do suggest to students to show both CHL and DL if stopped, even if you are not carrying, still once the trooper was told the driver had NO gun of any kind in the car, the trooper should have shut up. Either the cop was ingnorant of the law (doubtful) or he just was irritated over whatever in his life he was irritated about that day. There was no reason for him to go on once he found out there was no firearms in the car.

And with that being said, I've found showing your CHL and DL sometimes (just sometimes mind you) it becomes a get-out-of-ticket card. So why not go ahead and show it.

[Rugrash]

When I got my first speeding ticket as a CHL holder, I still gave the officer both my DL and CHL even though I wasn't carrying. Something tells me I did the right thing as when he asked if I had the weapon on me and I answered "no" he said "good". I was thrown off by his apparent distaste for CHL holders and in retrospect I think he would've given me a hard time about it if I hadn't given the CHL to him. I need the pocket-sized version CHL laws to go with my pocket-sized US Constitution. :-)

-Rug

[Liberty]

I was also told and have read that if I don't have a gun with me I don't have to let the office know that I have a CHL.

Why would you NOT show your CHL along with your DL even if you are not armed?

I always do and will continue to do so, but I've been asked for my ID a couple of times by an officer and when I simultaneously presented my license and CHL I was brusquely informed that it wasn't necessary. One officer was a Mississippi ooficer, and presenting the CHL is not required their ( I was actually carrying then). Another time was League city officer who was investigating a complex traffic accident with lots of people standing around. When he asked me for my ID the CHL was just one an extraneous piece of data that he didn't need to be dealing with.

[longtooth]

I will always give both. I am always armed. If he is under stress as the big accident & a little short, I can over look that. Some cant or wont. I have been short w/ others before & I sure like it when they overlook & forgive w/o a come back. I can do the same for others.

[ZARASTER]

To me showing my CHL to an officer is like handing him a certificate from the Governor saying I am a great citizen and have outstanding corrector
Why would I not show the officer that? Hell I feel like waving it in the air

[jmorris]

Why would you not be carrying?

I'm on my way on base or other federal property and don't want to check my weapon into the armory (if one's available). I'm lucky that I only work in a federally leased building. The parking lot is not considered part of the lease. At least by the maps I've seen.

So what do I do if I have to leave work and go onto federal property? For one location the route there passes close to home, I will drop it off. For two other possiblities, I rent storage near work and would drop it off there for the short time I'd be unable to carry it.

Someone elsewhere said (to paraphase), "I'm going to carry anywhere I want". First, such get's us a black eye in the public's view, and second (more important to me) I have no desire to lose my job, let alone the time spent in federal court.

[HooG19]

Because he does not legally have to??? (just a guess)

It’s called “courtesy�. Why make a stressful situation any more so simply because “you legally can�. That is, at best, an immature philosophy.

I suppose my question would be: What is it about approaching a person that you KNOW has a CHL that makes it a "Stressful situation"?

It's not the knowledge of the CHL that makes a stop stressful, it's the fact that the LEO doesn't know if the driver has a CHL or not and could be a gang banger bent on popping a cop that day. THAT is the stressful part.

That said, why would you NOT hand over your CHL with your DL? When your license is run, your CHL will show up. The LEO will find out one way or another, so it's better to let him/her know up front that you are licensed than to surprise them and get a scolding.

On the note of disarming a CHL holder, a lot of officers will tell you to leave it alone and everything will be fine. I've only personally heard of DPS consistently disarming during a stop. I think the reason behind that is they are trained to keep 100% control of the situation because their backup could be several miles away (if they have backup in the same county).

[flintknapper]

It's not the knowledge of the CHL that makes a stop stressful, it's the fact that the LEO doesn't know if the driver has a CHL or not and could be a gang banger bent on popping a cop that day. THAT is the stressful part.

Huh?
Unless I'm missing something here....the officer can only know if the person he/she has stopped has a CHL one of two ways.

1. He/She will run the plates, request the info (learn about the CHL) and then "hope" the person driving the vehicle is the license holder.

2. He/She will address the "unknown" person, request I.D. and other pertinent documentation (registration,proof of insurance), and if the person is carrying they will also display their CHL.

In either case....the officer must make "contact" to determine WHO the driver is. This already exposes them to the possibility of attack. It's part of the job.

That said, why would you NOT hand over your CHL with your DL?

Maybe you keep it in the glove compartment, maybe you don't even have it with you, and lastly...it isn't required if you're not carrying.

When your license is run, your CHL will show up.

So..........? Having a CHL is not a crime last time I checked.

The LEO will find out one way or another, so it's better to let him/her know up front that you are licensed than to surprise them and get a scolding.

Why is this a problem? Unless there is some stigma attached to having a CHL...who cares if the LEO finds out or doesn't. I am not hiding anything.

I really hope I don't run into an officer bent on giving me "a scolding" for doing what is lawful. I am extra courteous and respectful of LEO because I realize the risks they take, and most never give me any reason to do otherwise. But, the first time an officer decides to treat me like some pimple faced 15 yr. old and "scold me", it's going last all of about 2 seconds.

On the note of disarming a CHL holder, a lot of officers will tell you to leave it alone and everything will be fine.

All that I have met fall into this category, in fact none have even said anything about it all. I love those guys!

I've only personally heard of DPS consistently disarming during a stop. I think the reason behind that is they are trained to keep 100% control of the situation because their backup could be several miles away (if they have backup in the same county).

That amounts to "policy" and is very much outside the scope of the law. We've gone over this many times.
If CHL's do not cry "foul" when this happens (because of "policy") then we may expect it to become more and more common. Rarely is there a reason (per the law) to disarm.

[legend]

I was told by a LEO (my stepmom actually) that the LEO can get a bit nervous if they find that you have a CHL and you didn't tell them up front. They might think that you are hiding something, or have some reason that you didn't want them to know that you might have a gun on you.

I always hand over my CHL with my license and just tell them whether or not I am carrying at that particular time (Which I usually am).

[flintknapper]

I was told by a LEO (my stepmom actually) that the LEO can get a bit nervous if they find that you have a CHL and you didn't tell them up front. They might think that you are hiding something, or have some reason that you didn't want them to know that you might have a gun on you.

I always hand over my CHL with my license and just tell them whether or not I am carrying at that particular time (Which I usually am).

Hi Legend,

I hope you will not think I am "ragging" on LEO. I really do have great respect for those who do a tough job with professionalism and concern for their safety.

Perhaps after being LEO for a period of time, a person just becomes suspicious of everyone. Maybe that is the stark reality of the job, I don't know.

Although I know quite a few LEO and some are my friends, I admit that I can not speak to things from their perspective. I like to think that the "right" thing to do when stopping a CHL (or any other person) that has given you no reason to be "suspicious" is to simply not be!

There is really no need to "conjure up" thoughts of "possible" illegal acts that have not been precipitated by something demonstrable.

This is precisely why there remains an uneasiness between the public and LEO (in some cases).

If you've ever been on the receiving end of a "fishing expedition" then you know what I mean.

Thank you... for helping try to explain why LEO might think it important for us to always display our CHL. Maybe I'll grasp it someday.

Flint.

[Commander]

A couple of points:

1- CHLs are not tied to the license plate of a vehicle. As discussed in previous posts, a check of an individual's driver license will automatically inquire
into the CHL database. There is no cross check of LP to CHL - LPs are issued by and are a part of TxDOTs RTS (Registration Title Sysem) Database. CHLs are issued by and are a part of TxDPS's Databases.

2- Disarming 100% of CHL holders is NOT DPS policy. Policy dictates that each situation be handled on the circumstances at the time. If a CHL holder has reason to believe they were disarmed without cause, there is a complaint process that can be followed:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_s ... plaint.htm

[DaveT]

In this reply, I'm not going to discuss the law, that's been covered several times.

I know there are LEO's on this board. I' used to be one, retired now, my son just finished his 6 month academy and is now in the PTO phase of his training. In his many conversations with me during the academy, it was easy for me to see that the main emphasis during all phases of the academy was OFFICER SAFETY. As one who has 'passed the torch' on to his son, I was happy to see this. There seems to be much more thinking and training going into OFFICER SAFETY now than there was back during my day.

With that in mind.... put yourself in the boots of an officer working the streets these days. It is a very dangerous job in an ever increasing dangerous society. We all know how dangerous things can be, that's why we carry. Another thing to remember is that any officer wants to go home to his family at night.... just like we do. Is taking a few extra seconds to pull out your CHL along with your drivers license and insurance paperwork really such a hassle..... does it really mess up your day that bad ? Just because the law says you don't have to if you are not carrying, why not look at things from the officer's point of view..... keeping OFFICER SAFETY in mind. You let him know right up front and you give him the option of treating you totally different.

Just my .02, but I hope what I have posted here might cause a few minutes of thought. I worked traffic for many years and I can honestly say that most any officer is going to get hinky when he finds out from the dispatcher that there might be a gun in a vehicle that he didn't know anything about. So why not give officers on the street a break be right up front with them.... even if you are not carrying.

[txmatt]

Folks, the law is clear on this. If you are not carrying there is no need to show the CHL. If a cop sees that I have a CHL and then gets angry at me for following the law, I will be making a complaint to his/her supervisor. It makes no sense once seeing that someone has a CHL to then assume that the person has suddenly chosen to start violating the law rather than the much more plausible explanation that that person is not carrying at the moment.

Also, given unlicensed car carry these days in Texas, if an officer wants to know whether there is a weapon in the vehicle he should be asking... a non-chl will not be informing an officer if carrying unless asked.

Rugrash-
Around here when I am carrying and inform a LEO of this after presenting my CHL then I get the response "good," not the other way around.