Once more - 4413

[wileyj]

I also asked my CHL instructor about this and here is her reply:

In a message dated 2/5/2006 6:32:05 P.M. Central Standard Time, wiley@wkyote.us writes:

Possession of a handgun under Authority of Texas Concealed Handgun Permit Law, Texas Civil Statutes article 4413 ( 29ee) is prohibited beyond this point

hey wiley

I am i glad you sent this to me, i thought it looked familiar but i wanted to check with legal before i said anything. this is one of the original sign (1995) and it IS still valid. we DO have to honor it. what was really weird is i saw one today at a store and would have ignored it had it not been for you. thank-you. i will be passing this info on to everyone.
thanks again, feel free to shout at me anytime.

So, there is another point of view. I respect this person's knowledge and I will honor the sign

..wiley

[txinvestigator]

I also asked my CHL instructor about this and here is her reply:

In a message dated 2/5/2006 6:32:05 P.M. Central Standard Time, wiley@wkyote.us writes:

Possession of a handgun under Authority of Texas Concealed Handgun Permit Law, Texas Civil Statutes article 4413 ( 29ee) is prohibited beyond this point

hey wiley

I am i glad you sent this to me, i thought it looked familiar but i wanted to check with legal before i said anything. this is one of the original sign (1995) and it IS still valid. we DO have to honor it. what was really weird is i saw one today at a store and would have ignored it had it not been for you. thank-you. i will be passing this info on to everyone.
thanks again, feel free to shout at me anytime.

So, there is another point of view. I respect this person's knowledge and I will honor the sign

..wiley

There is no 4413 anymore, the sign is not enforceable. Read 30.06 and SHOW me where it shows that the sign is enforceable.

Your instructor is wrong on this one.

[ElGato]

there's a young lady in legal at the DPS that say's" that the sign must contain the language" and leaves out the "identical to the following" someone even left it out on page 10 of the instructors lesson plan- legal issues- updated 07/05, the same one that says traveling is still not defined and she will refer to old case law.

By the way Ripps, an instructor at the DPS said that as for as he was concerned traveling had been very well defined by the new law.

I threw in the travel along with the 30.06 issue to remind us that we will have two different interpretations on every issue, even from the DPS, there's pro and anti.

the above is my personal opinion.

Tomcat

[gigag04]

There is no 4413 anymore, the sign is not enforceable. Read 30.06 and SHOW me where it shows that the sign is enforceable.

+1. Unfortunately wiley, I think you may have been given some mis-information.

the law says "Identical to..."

In the Texas Penal Code there is no reference to old signs being "grandfathered" in, which leaves 30.06 the only enforceable written notice effiective against non-employees.

[JohnKSa]

WARNING! BEFORE reading farther, please read the disclaimer at the end of the post.

The law says that unless the site is one of the enumerated sites in the law (prison, etc.), then the site MUST post the proper sign (and the law says "IDENTICAL TO" with respect to the sign's wording and also says that it must be posted in BOTH English and Spanish) if they wish to legally prevent me from carrying with a CHL on their premises.

They also have the option of approaching me directly and giving me a verbal notice or handing me a properly worded written notice (as defined by the law).

In the absence of proper signage or a directly delivered verbal or written notice, it's legal for me to carry and therefore I do.

Furthermore, as pointed out, if the museum is owned by the government, the posting is not binding even if it IS properly worded and formatted.

[DanEgner]

Would someone be willing to ask the Texas Attorney General for an opinion on this question? I think part of his job is answering question like that.

[DanEgner]

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinopen/opi ... tml#whocan
Tells who can get an opinion from the Attorney General:
the Governor
the head of a department of state government
the head or board of a penal institution
the head or board of an eleemosynary institution
the head of a state board
a regent or trustee of a state educational institution
a committee of a house of the Texas Legislature
a county auditor authorized by law
the chairman of the governing board of a river authority

Anybody here know any of these folk?

[KBCraig]

the head or board of an eleemosynary institution

I consider myself a fairly well-read fellow, but I had to look that one up!

Main Entry: el·ee·mo·sy·nary
Pronunciation: "e-li-'mä-s&n-"er-E, -'mO-; -'mä-z&n-
Function: adjective
Etymology: Medieval Latin eleemosynarius, from Late Latin eleemosyna alms -- more at ALMS
: of, relating to, or supported by charity

Kevin

[GrannyGlock]

eleemosynary

Definitely a word to add to your vocabulary!

[Diode]

I also asked my CHL instructor about this and here is her reply:

In a message dated 2/5/2006 6:32:05 P.M. Central Standard Time, wiley@wkyote.us writes:

Possession of a handgun under Authority of Texas Concealed Handgun Permit Law, Texas Civil Statutes article 4413 ( 29ee) is prohibited beyond this point

hey wiley

I am i glad you sent this to me, i thought it looked familiar but i wanted to check with legal before i said anything. this is one of the original sign (1995) and it IS still valid. we DO have to honor it. what was really weird is i saw one today at a store and would have ignored it had it not been for you. thank-you. i will be passing this info on to everyone.
thanks again, feel free to shout at me anytime.

So, there is another point of view. I respect this person's knowledge and I will honor the sign

..wiley

Careful what CHL instructors tell you, mine said there was no law about getting drunk while carrying my handgun. He told us this in our class. I was shocked. Check on it myself and found he was wrong. As for the sign, I am under the impression if it is not a 30.06 it is not valid.

[txinvestigator]

I also asked my CHL instructor about this and here is her reply:

In a message dated 2/5/2006 6:32:05 P.M. Central Standard Time, wiley@wkyote.us writes:

Possession of a handgun under Authority of Texas Concealed Handgun Permit Law, Texas Civil Statutes article 4413 ( 29ee) is prohibited beyond this point

hey wiley

I am i glad you sent this to me, i thought it looked familiar but i wanted to check with legal before i said anything. this is one of the original sign (1995) and it IS still valid. we DO have to honor it. what was really weird is i saw one today at a store and would have ignored it had it not been for you. thank-you. i will be passing this info on to everyone.
thanks again, feel free to shout at me anytime.

So, there is another point of view. I respect this person's knowledge and I will honor the sign

..wiley

Careful what CHL instructors tell you, mine said there was no law about getting drunk while carrying my handgun. He told us this in our class. I was shocked. Check on it myself and found he was wrong. As for the sign, I am under the impression if it is not a 30.06 it is not valid.

Are you sure he didn't tell you there was no "legal limit" for intoxication while carrying a handgun, which is correct?

[Diode]

I also asked my CHL instructor about this and here is her reply:

In a message dated 2/5/2006 6:32:05 P.M. Central Standard Time, wiley@wkyote.us writes:

Possession of a handgun under Authority of Texas Concealed Handgun Permit Law, Texas Civil Statutes article 4413 ( 29ee) is prohibited beyond this point

hey wiley

I am i glad you sent this to me, i thought it looked familiar but i wanted to check with legal before i said anything. this is one of the original sign (1995) and it IS still valid. we DO have to honor it. what was really weird is i saw one today at a store and would have ignored it had it not been for you. thank-you. i will be passing this info on to everyone.
thanks again, feel free to shout at me anytime.

So, there is another point of view. I respect this person's knowledge and I will honor the sign

..wiley

Careful what CHL instructors tell you, mine said there was no law about getting drunk while carrying my handgun. He told us this in our class. I was shocked. Check on it myself and found he was wrong. As for the sign, I am under the impression if it is not a 30.06 it is not valid.

Are you sure he didn't tell you there was no "legal limit" for intoxication while carrying a handgun, which is correct?

"It is illigal to be intoxicated while carrying a handgun" that's written in the handbook under the FAQ section, what would a legal limit have to do with it? A local police officer got his book out and confirmed it is illigal to carry intoxicated, am I missing something?>

[KBCraig]

Careful what CHL instructors tell you, mine said there was no law about getting drunk while carrying my handgun. He told us this in our class. I was shocked. Check on it myself and found he was wrong. As for the sign, I am under the impression if it is not a 30.06 it is not valid.

Are you sure he didn't tell you there was no "legal limit" for intoxication while carrying a handgun, which is correct?

There's some debate about whether to tackle this in the Legislature, or to leave it alone.

Here's the problem with defining "intoxicated" for CHL purposes: all judgement is removed from the matter. Someone relaxing at the hotel restaurant after a long day on the road, who then decides to have a couple more beers at the bar area while watching SportsCenter, could easily pass 0.08 BAC without being a danger to himself or to anyone else.

Leave aside the debate about whether doing so is wise, or not. Focus on the legal aspects: if we leave "intoxicated" as an element that must be demonstrated and proved by behavior and/or a field test, our guy could finish his beer and go safely back to his room to spend the night, without having broken any laws.

On the flip side, if TABC pulls any more of their "public intoxication" sweeps, just sniffing the cork could land you in hot water for "carrying while intoxicated". I think the outrage over that little episode has shut down their little dragnet for the foreseeable future, though.

Here's an update on that story.

Kevin